Page 8 | Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

JustineMumsnet · 2025-02-04T12:13:10+00:00

Hi all, There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again. As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow. It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 19:50

Janiie · 04/02/2025 17:53

We know we know. Justice isn't our friend and mnhq have failed. Or rather, a nasty perve posted vile images that were removed.

They have fixed the problem. Now if it happens again then regroup and recommence the constant 'NW should be paid!' Protests.

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I don't think they have totally fixed the problem yet though.

They have suspended ability to post -temporary measure.

They are looking into AI filters to prevent posting such material - This is a great step and much needed but it isn't implemented yet and no filter system can be 100% reliable.

They are changing the algorithm to reduce the number of times something needs to reported at night before the thread is pulled - again this will be a big help but I'm not clear if has actually been done yet. It also can't be 100% effective especially if it is a quiet night and the posts are in quiet corner of the site.

They have arranged for someone senior to be "on call" at all times. - an important and great step that can be implemented immediately but I (and many others) feel it won't be enough. For instance the senior person could decide to stop the ability of people to upload photos temporarily, but will someone with the technical expertise to do that be available at 3:00am? There needs to at the very least be someone who can access the system and do all the actions a daytime moderator will do (access reports, ban posters etc) if needed. It has been shown that people without this type of access can't handle something like this. The Night Watch had to ask people to post links to CSA images in order to know where they were in order to hide the thread. That really wasn't on ( not blaming NW, they did the best they could with the tools they had). Of course we all hope that the new AI and changes to automated systems will prevent stuff getting though but that can't be totally guaranteed and they need a failsafe back up!

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 19:46

CalicoPusscat · 04/02/2025 19:17

@BloominNora quite a lot of people didn't know about how to report to the the night watch let alone they weren't paid! It's become apparent with this.

Neither did I - but Justine and the team are focusing on what they can do immediately and in the short term to stop this happening again - setting up a paid, overnight, moderating staff is not a quick fix - you can't just move current day time staff to an overnight contract and you can't just bring people in without vetting and training.

spritsailking · 04/02/2025 19:46

ColourBlueColourPurple · 04/02/2025 19:32

What I don't understand is why? I thought pedophiles liked to hide under the radar for fear of being found out/caught? The person/s responsible for this knew that they, along with their IP address, would be reported straight to the police. IP addresses are easily traceable I thought. So why? Why basically wave their hands saying "I'm a pedophile"?

If you use apple it's impossible for you to be traced. And apple have refused to unlock the phones of mass killers

TheDowagerCountessofPembroke · 04/02/2025 19:42

oneofmeiscutebuttwothough · 04/02/2025 19:06

@TheDowagerCountessofPembroke the NW don't have access to the report system. They did the best they could

I know they did. I’m not blaming NW in any way.
They should have had access to the report system. To say that reporting works 24/7 is wrong. It didn’t.

None of this is NA’s fault. They did the best they could.

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 19:41

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 04/02/2025 19:20

”It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any!”

@BloominNora - clearly this issue has brought the issue of the unpaid, voluntary nature of the Night Watch into stark focus. It has done so for me - and yes, I haven’t asked about paying the night time mods before - I’m afraid my crystal ball let me down, and I didn’t foresee some vile excuse for a human being would attack MN with CSA images. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion on the matter now?

Of course not - but the haranguing of Justine and the MN staff about not having an immediate response to it (and I am not saying you have done - but others have) when they have more pressing issues to resolve is completely inappropriate.

Were MN naive? Probably, yes, but they didn't have a crystal ball either - there was no way they could know that something that has worked for over 10 years all of a sudden wouldn't.

OneDenimRobin · 04/02/2025 19:37

ColourBlueColourPurple · 04/02/2025 19:32

What I don't understand is why? I thought pedophiles liked to hide under the radar for fear of being found out/caught? The person/s responsible for this knew that they, along with their IP address, would be reported straight to the police. IP addresses are easily traceable I thought. So why? Why basically wave their hands saying "I'm a pedophile"?

Because, though I know people have objected to the use of the word, whoever posted this was using images of child abuse to troll MN and MN users. They used what they thought would cause the greatest reaction and distress to the women on this site.

Joker01 · 04/02/2025 19:37

ColourBlueColourPurple · 04/02/2025 19:32

What I don't understand is why? I thought pedophiles liked to hide under the radar for fear of being found out/caught? The person/s responsible for this knew that they, along with their IP address, would be reported straight to the police. IP addresses are easily traceable I thought. So why? Why basically wave their hands saying "I'm a pedophile"?

They get a kick out of sharing such sick images. It’s horrific. It’s the worst thing in the world, the absolute worst. I couldn’t say what I would like to do to the perpetrators here.

Joker01 · 04/02/2025 19:35

The constant minimisation on this thread is shocking.

ChonkyRabbit · 04/02/2025 19:34

ColourBlueColourPurple · 04/02/2025 19:32

What I don't understand is why? I thought pedophiles liked to hide under the radar for fear of being found out/caught? The person/s responsible for this knew that they, along with their IP address, would be reported straight to the police. IP addresses are easily traceable I thought. So why? Why basically wave their hands saying "I'm a pedophile"?

They will have covered their tracks. Cyber crime is very very hard to trace if the criminal knows what they're doing.

oakleaffy · 04/02/2025 19:33

DaraForPope · 04/02/2025 19:30

I have been on here for a long time, maybe 20 years and was not aware that the night watch was solely volunteers. It’s not good enough tosay it’s worked fine for years so how were MNHQ to know it could go wrong. The internet has changed dramatically in recent years and with the business they are they should be one step ahead.
MNHQ you are culpable and need to make sure nothing similar can ever happen again. You also need to anticipate other potential attacks and take action to prevent them.

It's been a potential wake up call for Piston Heads {Men's Forum} as well.

^^
Well that's a new level of sick.
^^
^^
I hope PH is watching and taking note, because any forum could be victim to this - and now the genie is out of the bottle, it will happen again.

ColourBlueColourPurple · 04/02/2025 19:32

What I don't understand is why? I thought pedophiles liked to hide under the radar for fear of being found out/caught? The person/s responsible for this knew that they, along with their IP address, would be reported straight to the police. IP addresses are easily traceable I thought. So why? Why basically wave their hands saying "I'm a pedophile"?

mathanxiety · 04/02/2025 19:31

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 04/02/2025 12:47

It seems clear that the Night Watch system does not work.

The NW don't see when a thread is reported, only when someone tells them on the NW thread - so when people were hitting Report on these images, no-one was seeing that immediately.

The NW are unpaid volunteers, and should not be faced with dealing with images like that, or the fallout from them over several hours, without back up. I am guessing that the NW don't have any way to alert paid MNHQ staff immediately, if there is a serious issue like this one, so they were left to deal with this alone.

I appreciate that you are dealing with a difficult issue, @JustineMumsnet, but would like to add my voice to the many others who have said that you need to rethink the NW system, and make sure there are paid mods available overnight, so reports are seen and dealt with immediately.

Could you also please reassure us that MNHQ are putting in place measures to help and support the posters and the NW staff who saw these images. I can only imagine how traumatic it was for them.

Yes to all of this.

DaraForPope · 04/02/2025 19:30

I have been on here for a long time, maybe 20 years and was not aware that the night watch was solely volunteers. It’s not good enough tosay it’s worked fine for years so how were MNHQ to know it could go wrong. The internet has changed dramatically in recent years and with the business they are they should be one step ahead.
MNHQ you are culpable and need to make sure nothing similar can ever happen again. You also need to anticipate other potential attacks and take action to prevent them.

Mrsbloggz · 04/02/2025 19:30

Preoo · 04/02/2025 19:09

It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any!

There's been lots of threads and posts over the years asking that they be paid or questioning why they're not.

Why aren't they paid?
Well that's easy, they are willing to work for free, why would anyone pay for something which is being offered for free.
I'm not surprised that MN doesnt want to pay them, employers will always pay as little as they can get away with. I'm just surprised that anyone would do it for free!

JoyousGreyOrca · 04/02/2025 19:29

CalicoPusscat · 04/02/2025 19:17

@BloominNora quite a lot of people didn't know about how to report to the the night watch let alone they weren't paid! It's become apparent with this.

I agree. I thought you just pressed report at any time of the day or night. I thought posts on site stuff were because no one had responded to the reports.

noblegiraffe · 04/02/2025 19:27

It is astonishing that some people can see that someone would come on MN and post horrendous, criminal images in order to attack both users of MN and MN itself, but then still disbelieve that people would come on here and post grab-the-pitchfork type posts to wind up MNetters and attack MN itself.

Twilight7777 · 04/02/2025 19:26

Thank you. I can’t begin to imagine what you and others that have witnessed the abuse images must be feeling, there’s nothing I can say that can make it better. I hope you find some support ❤️

oakleaffy · 04/02/2025 19:26

CalicoPusscat · 04/02/2025 19:17

@BloominNora quite a lot of people didn't know about how to report to the the night watch let alone they weren't paid! It's become apparent with this.

I wasn't aware that ''Night Watch'' were unpaid volunteers, either, before this incident.

ChonkyRabbit · 04/02/2025 19:24

It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any

I'm embarrassed for you. There have been many threads over the years about it.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 04/02/2025 19:20

”It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any!”

@BloominNora - clearly this issue has brought the issue of the unpaid, voluntary nature of the Night Watch into stark focus. It has done so for me - and yes, I haven’t asked about paying the night time mods before - I’m afraid my crystal ball let me down, and I didn’t foresee some vile excuse for a human being would attack MN with CSA images. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion on the matter now?

CalicoPusscat · 04/02/2025 19:17

@BloominNora quite a lot of people didn't know about how to report to the the night watch let alone they weren't paid! It's become apparent with this.

GiuliaTofana · 04/02/2025 19:10

I hope the children in the images are found and given safety. It breaks my heart knowing any child suffers.

I wish nothing but misery, pain and suffering for the putrid little person who did this.

I was online but luckily didn’t see anything. What is incredibly sad is the new mums full of hormones and anxiety scrolling with babes in arms probably saw some of those horrific images.

I hope that anyone who had the unfortunate luck of viewing those images is getting support. I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with this.

Preoo · 04/02/2025 19:09

It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any!

There's been lots of threads and posts over the years asking that they be paid or questioning why they're not.

oneofmeiscutebuttwothough · 04/02/2025 19:06

@TheDowagerCountessofPembroke the NW don't have access to the report system. They did the best they could

oakleaffy · 04/02/2025 19:04

Piston Heads, a Men's Forum where they mentioned Mumsnet being targeted had the OP say :

Well that's a new level of sick.
^^
From an attackers perspective, it's a sure way to cause huge disruption - however, the material used means that a lot of resource will hopefully be put into identifying and arresting those responsible.
^^
I hope PH {Piston Heads} is watching and taking note, because any forum could be victim to this - and now the genie is out of the bottle, it will happen again.