Page 7 | Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

JustineMumsnet · 2025-02-04T12:13:10+00:00

Hi all, There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again. As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow. It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

JaneJeffer · 04/02/2025 22:02

You don't yell at a building owner for not having smoke alarms and sprinklers when they have just put out a fire and are trying to stop it re-igniting!
And you don't blow smoke up their arse either.

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 21:58

Mumtobabyhavoc · 04/02/2025 21:47

It's not just the images posted. It seems there are many threads re certain hot topics that are designed to stir up hate/prejudice/mistrust. That needs to be addressed, too. As it stands, many such threads go on and on. To me, it seems a lot of supportive posts on these threads are fake.

Actually, this is about the images posted. Yes, there are (plenty) other issues also, but what happened here the other night, and the aftermath of it is abhorrent.

Images of Child Sexual Abuse (i saw someone who was forced to view them describe them as Category 1 - do you know what that means?) were hosted on Mumsnet, a leading parenting platform, for a period of time, and the procedure in place to deal with it has been shown to be not fit for purpose.

It is completely reasonable for people to be questioning how the fuck this was able to happen, and expecting the CEO to take responsibility for ensuring that this sort of content is not forced upon their users and staff again.

Justine's lackadaisical-sounding response (or lack of it) to discussion around this, along with her assurance to the press that she has signposted to support for moderators of the site, whilst ignoring the numbers of users who have been affected by this, suggested she continues to see the people who use this forum as the freeloaders she once described them as.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 04/02/2025 21:47

It's not just the images posted. It seems there are many threads re certain hot topics that are designed to stir up hate/prejudice/mistrust. That needs to be addressed, too. As it stands, many such threads go on and on. To me, it seems a lot of supportive posts on these threads are fake.

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 21:45

I'm also really not yelling at anyone. My posts have been asking questions about what MN are doing, expressing concerns about things and summarising the issues as I see them. I'm not yelling at Justine or anyone else but I am concerned that the procedures she has outlined that are now in place or are in the process of being put in place are insufficient. I have explained my reasons for thinking this. As far as I can tell I have been polite and clear in all my posts.

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 21:41

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 19:02

It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any!

From the intro link up the thread NW was introduced in 2014 - so has been in place and worked for over 10 years - Justine and the team cannot be blamed for it not working following an unprecedented incident in over 20 years of MN existing.

The first focus is and should be focusing on what needs to be done to practically stop this happening again - which from Justine's updates, it seems they are:

Removing the ability to post pictures
Strengthening the filters
Lowering the auto-hide threshold for reported posts
Making sure someone senior in on hand overnight

I'm sure that after they have got that in place, they will look at how to moderate the site overnight on a paid basis - but that will take time as they will likely need HR advice to determine the right contracts for unsociable working hours (or over seas workers) and actually recruit to the posts.

I didn't see the incident play out last night, thankfully, and I haven't been on MN a huge amount today, but it is being mentioned everywhere, and this thread has been in active since it was posted - I fully support the team deleting the multitude of threads that keep popping up and just using this one - firstly because multiple threads on the same topic are annoying, they are difficult to mod where there are such strong feelings.

However, most importantly even just discussion about CSA images may very well be triggering for some people who are survivors of it, so keeping the thread in site stuff and not allowing it to pop up all over the forum is the right thing to do.

The only slight criticism I have is the lack of signposting for those affected - a locked thread at the top of each subject forum with relevant support links would be good.

Well here's two of mine.... just from this username. I won't look up other usernames because it's none of your damn business.

In fact, I can't upload them of course because images have been disabled, but feel free to PM me for them

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 21:16

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 20:15

Is she? Where?

She said

"NightWatchers are long-standing, experienced Mumsnet users who live in different timezones and who very kindly have offered to help keep an eye on things overnight. They do have some admin tools to manage situations (they can hide posts and threads and suspend users) and we are looking at ways in which we can augment these tools, including improving alerts when a thread is being widely reported.

It’s worth noting that many large platforms rely almost entirely on volunteer moderators.

The issue on Sunday night wasn’t night watch controls or moderation - it was that these images could be posted at all. Even if this had happened during the day, they still would have appeared on the site. That’s why our focus is on preventing this kind of content from being uploaded in the first place."

That doesn't say they aren't considering it does it? If, in three months time, they still don't have a decent UK night-time moderation system, then fair criticism, but the continual haranguing over it now is silly as it is a policy decision which needs HR, contractual and legal input and cannot be announced on a whim.

You don't yell at a building owner for not having smoke alarms and sprinklers when they have just put out a fire and are trying to stop it re-igniting!

Edited

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To me, that implies continuing to use Nightwatch Volunteers.
Had she been looking into the possibility of paid night time moderation she could have said so. Her statement seems to imply to me that she feels the Nightwatch is adequate. I'm afraid I don't, even with improved automatic systems.

maudelovesharold · 04/02/2025 21:12

You don't yell at a building owner for not having smoke alarms and sprinklers when they have just put out a fire and are trying to stop it re-igniting!

Well, you probably do if you were caught in the fire or you live in the same building.

ShamblesRock · 04/02/2025 21:09

SoupDragon · 04/02/2025 20:10

Unless you did that before they suspended registrations

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I did it shortly before I posted, so as of 19.50 it was possible to register a new account.

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 20:56

MuddlingThroughLife · 04/02/2025 20:50

What have I missed? What are CSA images?

Read the thread.

crowgift · 04/02/2025 20:55

@BloominNora we were sitting ducks: the site did not have the appropriate filters. I've mentioned elsewhere that I remember when images of mutilated corpses spammed the site and had assumed that various filters were put in place then. This was preventable.

MuddlingThroughLife · 04/02/2025 20:50

What have I missed? What are CSA images?

RainbowZebraWarrior · 04/02/2025 20:46

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 20:19

58 results - mostly just explaining who they are - looks like maybe one additional thread questioning why they are not paid

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Here's the original announcement from MN about the NW starting back in 2014. Plenty of questions and concerns raised on this thread alone. From 9 Years Ago.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_night_watch/2015451-Night-Watch-begins-this-evening

Then there's the NW sub topic itself. 42 pages of reports. Buried among those pages are plenty of people who were also concerned about the system and the NW staff themselves. The NW thread is under the 'Mumsnet Stuff' topic. Plenty of folk who have been here for years never even knew it existed and didn't know there was a dedicated page to raise the alarm. I have previous experience of being a volunteer moderator of a much smaller site. I worked out that if you reported a post more than X number of times as 'Spam' it would automatically be hidden. This was not and is not common knowledge, however.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_night_watch

Night Watch begins this evening | Mumsnet

Hi all, After months of discussion, the moment has finally arrived: the much-anticipated Night Watch will begin active service as of this evening <...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_night_watch/2015451-Night-Watch-begins-this-evening

Blueeyedmale · 04/02/2025 20:23

the first I heard of this was on the news today and I'm absolutely shocked,it's good that Mumsnet is engaging with the police

I'm completely lost for words how someone could be so sick,as a victim of csa myself I can't get my head around how someone would target a site predominantly used by women who are parents.

I feel sadness and sick to the stomach for those who had to encounter this,I've had to report a few twisted posts in my time but never ever thought that something like this could happen.

I hope those responsible for this sick crime are brought to justice very swiftly and spend a very long time well away from society

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 20:19

noblegiraffe · 04/02/2025 20:12

You should have tried "nightwatch" and "volunteers"

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58 results - mostly just explaining who they are - looks like maybe one additional thread questioning why they are not paid

PiggyPigalle · 04/02/2025 20:18

oakleaffy · 04/02/2025 19:33

It's been a potential wake up call for Piston Heads {Men's Forum} as well.

^^
Well that's a new level of sick.
^^
^^
I hope PH is watching and taking note, because any forum could be victim to this - and now the genie is out of the bottle, it will happen again.

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It happened in 2007 I think on the Daily Mirror forum and this is the only time since I've known it, so Genie's been in the bottle for a long time.

Why doesn't everybody just leave it now, it's not as though you're shareholders in the company. Although by the way some fire directions and demands at how to run the business, you think you have some entitlement to it.

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 20:15

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 19:54

But at the moment Justine seems to be saying she isn't going to set up a system with paid trained moderating staff but continue to rely on the volunteer Nightwatch. That is what we are expressing concern about.

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Is she? Where?

She said

"NightWatchers are long-standing, experienced Mumsnet users who live in different timezones and who very kindly have offered to help keep an eye on things overnight. They do have some admin tools to manage situations (they can hide posts and threads and suspend users) and we are looking at ways in which we can augment these tools, including improving alerts when a thread is being widely reported.

It’s worth noting that many large platforms rely almost entirely on volunteer moderators.

The issue on Sunday night wasn’t night watch controls or moderation - it was that these images could be posted at all. Even if this had happened during the day, they still would have appeared on the site. That’s why our focus is on preventing this kind of content from being uploaded in the first place."

That doesn't say they aren't considering it does it? If, in three months time, they still don't have a decent UK night-time moderation system, then fair criticism, but the continual haranguing over it now is silly as it is a policy decision which needs HR, contractual and legal input and cannot be announced on a whim.

You don't yell at a building owner for not having smoke alarms and sprinklers when they have just put out a fire and are trying to stop it re-igniting!

noblegiraffe · 04/02/2025 20:12

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 20:08

Really - Would be interesting to see them - following yours and another poster's comment about there being threads in the past I did a search for "Nightwatch" AND "paid" (also "Night watch" AND "paid") going from Friday last back to 01st Jan 2020 - there were two or three threads specifically about the subject and a scattering of odd comments on other threads - on a site as busy as MN it doesn't seem like a lot at all!

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You should have tried "nightwatch" and "volunteers"

SoupDragon · 04/02/2025 20:10

spritsailking · 04/02/2025 19:56

I deleted my account after this happened. Then signed up for a new one. So I can confirm regs are open

Unless you did that before they suspended registrations

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 20:08

ChonkyRabbit · 04/02/2025 19:24

It really is amazing how many people are so vocal about the NW volunteers needing to be paid now....after the fact! I would love to see the links to all your previous posts asking staff why they didn't have paid nighttime mods, but I won't, because there aren't any

I'm embarrassed for you. There have been many threads over the years about it.

Really - Would be interesting to see them - following yours and another poster's comment about there being threads in the past I did a search for "Nightwatch" AND "paid" (also "Night watch" AND "paid") going from Friday last back to 01st Jan 2020 - there were two or three threads specifically about the subject and a scattering of odd comments on other threads - on a site as busy as MN it doesn't seem like a lot at all!

Taigabread · 04/02/2025 19:59

Mumsnet made £2.3m of profit for 2023 after tax. Can't they spare even 5% of that to hire 2 or 3 proper staff for overnight moderation?

Greed.

spritsailking · 04/02/2025 19:56

I deleted my account after this happened. Then signed up for a new one. So I can confirm regs are open

ShamblesRock · 04/02/2025 19:55

BeckyAMumsnet · 04/02/2025 16:33

Hello - yes, we did suspend registrations.

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Not still suspended though. 😕

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 19:54

BloominNora · 04/02/2025 19:46

Neither did I - but Justine and the team are focusing on what they can do immediately and in the short term to stop this happening again - setting up a paid, overnight, moderating staff is not a quick fix - you can't just move current day time staff to an overnight contract and you can't just bring people in without vetting and training.

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But at the moment Justine seems to be saying she isn't going to set up a system with paid trained moderating staff but continue to rely on the volunteer Nightwatch. That is what we are expressing concern about.

2025willbemytime · 04/02/2025 19:51

There's lots to deal with but defending the use of volunteer moderators by saying they're all in different time zones and abroad is ludicrous. Doesn't stop them being properly trained and paid.

Taigabread · 04/02/2025 19:51

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 17:38

They weren't triggered and yes, you're right, Sunday night shows clearly that the thresholds were too high for nighttime when there are so many fewer people using the site. So we are recalibrating them.

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Your posts are very disappointing because it's quite clear you are willing to consider ANY option other that paying properly trained staff to work overnight.
You're looking for cheaper options basically and it feels money grabbing and dismissive.
I've personally vowed to visit mumsnet far less often now to minimise my own risk of inadvertently viewing content I don't want to see.
If mumsnet aren't willing to pay proper staff in order to safeguard users and volunteers better, we will safeguard ourselves by staying away 👌