Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

Firstly thank you for the update, however I do find it slightly surprising that it’s taken this long to release ANY kind of statement on it.

I have no idea of the traffic overnight on here and whether or not volunteers to moderate is appropriate or not (based on an industry standard) but it’s clear it’s not enough. It’s staggering to me (and this isn’t a criticism of the volunteers, but more of MNHQ) that they appear to have no idea how to contact someone who can actually resolve issues?!

I am also another user who had no idea the report function doesn’t work overnight.

I still think that alongside the AI monitoring there should be a delay in pictures being posted so that they can be checked before going live. If the picture is flagged then even the mods don’t have to allow it, they can disallow it straight away. That way no bad photos have the chance to go live.

Someone mentioned on the other thread that playing tetris can help. Sounds nuts but there's some solid research backing it up. Can't hurt, anyway. Hope you're okay.

I agree. Sorry @JustineMumsnet this isn’t really addressing the issue. It’s not good enough.

Thanks for this.

Something that has often crossed my mind (knowing that the volunteer night watch were largely recruited from 'folk often on MN in the wee hours') There's a big difference between often being up and online in the wee hours, and being obligated to moderate a forum. Are these people in different time zones? (doubt it) or users with health issues, sleep disorders, or insomnia, for example? In which case, is that / was that ever really an ethical thing to do?

Just to add, this is a genuine question, I'm a regular poster of many years, and I've always felt uncomfortable about the use of NW. I've also been a moderator volunteer on a much smaller site before, so it's really opened my eyes to the risks.

MN have been closing down threads discussing the situation. I'm not sure why - maybe to keep it out of the press? But users aren't aware that reports made overnight (uk) are not seen until the morning so if something like this happens again, then they don't know how to report.

I think people would be reassured by more transparency. I understand that there are trolls and bad actors but by not communicating with users, I fear MN are playing into their hands.

Hopefully this will be one of the issues that MNHQ are talking to the experts about, @oakleaffy.

Yes, I do agree with that. No one should have to see it, but to expect unpaid volunteers to be dealing with such things is beyond the pale. I'm glad MN are going to look into some tech solutions to stopping the images before they can be posted at all.

Even paid mods oughtn’t be able to see illegal CSA images though.

Even £1,000 a night would not be enough for many to see illegal images.

Al vetting is needed for images.

Safe Search on Google has kept me from seeing inappropriate images - so obviously such software exists.

However “ safe search” on google doesn’t work if people post illegal images to a forum.

Thank you for the update and thank you night volunteers, it must have been completely awful.

I do hope you will offer an official apology that this was possible on a huge, respected international forum.

I know I'm not alone in having the one image I saw for a split second seared in my mind. It keeps appearing and, here I am, feeling shame and guilt because I can't stop seeing it. I feel terrible because it's there. I feel poisoned.

My thoughts are with the victims. My feelings are but one grain of sand in their desert of pain.

And that's fine for small groups run for fun.

MN is a massive business with turnover and profit in the millions. Users' content has made its founders very wealthy indeed.

It's not unreasonable to expect such a big business to be run professionally.

It’s important to recognise there ARE bad faith actors, and avoid helping them with their work.

Inevitably there will be a few too many deleted and a few too many left up. No system is going to be perfect, especially on day 2 of the incident.

What’s this all about? Seems like I missed something

Thank you for the update.

Agree...as MN is well-known for being one of the only forums that supports discussion of certain women's issues, and attracts a lot of hate for this reason, it is suspicious

These are usually smaller sites that don't make millions in profit though. I think if you're making as much money as MN is, you can afford to pay for overnight support, especially since no one volunteering should have to deal with things like CSA images.

Just as a point of interest here's a link to the kickoff of NightWatch:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_night_watch/2015451-Night-Watch-begins-this-evening

Using volunteer mods is common on chat sites, especially quieter ones which MN is out of hours as most users are in the UK/Europe.

It can be helpful for the volunteers, especially if they are trying to rejoin the workforce or get into media/web dev as a career, in terms of work experience and references however, there should be a system in place with someone paid on call who the volunteers can reach out in an emergency like this one and they should have the ability to suspend posters and view reports.

Yes, I totally get that. For staff, that is one thing. An employer has a basic duty of care after all. It would be quite different to offering support to the users of this site, though, so I'd imagine that's why it hasn't been offered (especially as some users were talking about suing and going to the press, etc)

Why has that post been deleted now??

This is getting laughable now MN

There have been plenty of people expressing opinions on this issue that haven't been banned though so what that PP said doesn't match reality.

how dare you suggest that people who have commented on this situation are trolls just wanting to stir up trouble.

People wouldn’t have been commenting on it at all if the situation hadn’t happened in the first place due to your inadequate moderation.

Hear hear 👏

Thank you for the update. I agree that something needs to change with regards to the Night Watch and that this has been the case for many years. You have to be a pretty experienced user to know that a) reporting doesn’t work overnight and b) you have to post on the Night Watch forum if something comes up that needs urgent attention. Another issue with having to post on the Night Watch forum is that it is not anonymous and you are then opening yourself up as a target for whatever is going on.

MN needs moderators who have access to the proper reports overnight, If people are willing to do that for free, then that’s on them but it has to be a consistent presence on the official reporting system. Bad faith actors know that MN is vulnerable overnight and regularly take advantage of that even if it is just to post stupid threads. That this dreadful event happened is a direct consequence of that security flaw that has been discussed but not changed many times over the years.

Surely that counts as bad faith. Or are MN only concerned with critical posts?

It’s also ironic that genuine Mumsnet users can get a temporary ban for doubting threads that stretches credibility, yet a creepy paedophile can post with relative impunity overnight.

Also- there have been images of people posting genitalia images under the guise of “ Is this XYZ”?

Even GP surgeries say not to post such images.
No genitalia should be posted at all, in my opinion.

Al does need to be used to vet images- not even paid mods need to see the perverse illegal images that certain people post here.

I too have seen images - thankfully not CSA- that have been posted by the basement dweller types, and these are at night.

Night mods definitely need payment- It’s not a charity site after all.