Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

Yes, one of the few good things to come out of this is I've learned about the Tertris/PTSD connection, and I'm going to get back into playing it!

I agree, to many trolls and AI generated threads on this site.

I think an overhaul of procedures is long overdue.

Thankyou so much for that helpful suggestion. It's an old favourite of mine and I can absolutely see it helping. I'm going to install it right now.

Moderators should be paid, you can't rely on volunteers, plus no one should be working for free.

In other communities where moderators work for "free" there is an advantage for them working of some type (e.g. paid membership to something) or it's their own group on someone else's platform.

That's something at least.

Yes ladies, sit down, behave, shut up and #BeKind 🙄

I don’t know what you guys think, but MNHQ seem woefully ill-prepared to deal with this and vastly out of their depth. This has been horrific and very badly handled.

Even before this happened moderation has seemed light recently, in line with the changes made by Meta and X.

Maybe I am imagining it but there have been a lot of threads which would have been taken down a few months ago. Maybe it is fewer users reporting.

No particular opinion on the matter but it feels a bit like the trolls are winning at the minute.

My questions is why they want to rely on “tools” rather than employing people to keep a proper watch

It's not an either/or.
There needs to be pre-filtering so even the mods don't need to be exposed to CSA.

The NW mechanism as it stands is evidently not fit for purpose, for various of the reasons already discussed.

Personally I'd settle for lessons learned. If a solution isn't enough at 10am London time, then it isn't suitable any other time either. A website this big needs /to be consistently moderated 24/7/365.

@JustineMumsnet

I'm not talking about the images.

Are you saying that those who posted the onslaught all day yesterday deliberately to try and get mumsnet closed down were in cahoots with the person who posted them like?

I didn't click on a link. They were just there, no link!

@gamerchick please reconsider your use of the word "shenanigans" in relation to the publication of serious child abuse images. Also the reason this doesn't happen on other sites is that they have filters. Moderators should only see this kind of thing very rarely.

Absolutely not blood. People are asking for a proper paid supervision of the site overnight. I don't think this is unreasonable.

I was around when the night watch were brought in. People were asked if their powers were enough. Some disagreed but overall people were happy. I knew they were there, that they were volunteers. As did those of us who have been here for eons. Im assuming the volunteers have been perfectly happy until now as well.

I've said for years that Mumsnet needs moderators. Self moderation in this day and age probably isn't worth it.

Precisely.

Those who viewed the images have been seriously affected. It is not ridiculous to want to know that MN are doing everything they can to ensure this doesn’t happen again, especially considering there have been prior problems and they were aware that there were potential issues ongoing. It’s mad to say we should all just sit quietly.

It was CSA images for fucks sakes. It’s utterly despicable that it was allowed to happen. People should be loud as fuck about this.

@JustineMumsnet

But but but but but ...
I agree the start of the issue was that the images were posted at all and it is totally right that you are taking action to tighten controls on this and prevent it from happening. Thank you for taking these steps.

However once the images were posted (and continuing to be posted over a period of hours), the issue WAS that the Nightwatch were trying to deal with it without adequate tools or training ( eg asking posters to put a link to CSA abuse images in the Nightwatch thread - obviously illegal to do but totally understandable given the limited range of options open to them.

If this happened during the day the images would have been zapped far more quickly and fewer MNetters, including NW volunteers would have been exposed to them. Police could have been notified more quickly and executive decisions like suspending the ability to post pictures could also have been taken and implemented more quickly too.

You seem to be saying that the use of Nightwatch volunteers is irrelevant and this feels very disingenuous. Why aren't you considering paid staff with executive decision making skills and full training being on call through the night? ( Or if you are, why are you not telling us?)

After the awful incident where Russell Brand went rogue and made awful phonecalls on air on Radio 2 (the content was awful but arguably not as terrible as CSA) the BBC decided that a senior producer had to be on duty at all times just in case someone else did something as awful and so that they could immediately intervene/take programmes off air/apologise.

I know that MN is small in reach and size compared with the BBC but can you really not afford to provide some kind of fairly senior paid supervision overnight?

If you are telling is that your filters are enough to totally ensure that nothing really nasty/triggering of this or other ilk can never ever get through, then you really do need to address the Nightwatch issue also.

I’m shocked to learn that using the ‘report’ button only works during office hours. Unacceptable, I believe. MN has enough £££ and longevity of presence to be more aware of the risks and take appropriate steps to make sure this gaping chasm is addressed.

It was pretty obvious there were shenanigans.
Those type of images are not shenanigans FFS

Ironically, it's not the "darkweb type stuff" that has been harmful, it's CSA content being hosted by a major mainstream parenting website.

There still seems to be a degree of minimisation in your update. How was this allowed to happen? Why were no changes made since past incidents (I remember when images of mutilated dead bodies were spammed around the site)? Why were there no filters in place? You waited until we saw images of child sexual abuse (and in law you became the publisher of them). And now you are considering filters?!
This was entirely preventable (and frankly foreseeable that some kind of illegal content would eventually be uploaded as there were no filters).

No?

Why are people trying to minimise MN's role in this and their response to this? They're a multi-million pound business not some little side-hustle with few resources. I think just a little more honesty and a little more recognition that things went badly wrong wouldn't go a miss. No need to be so dramatic.

It’s not about wanting blood. It’s about asking a huge forum to protect its users in the proper manner, especially as this is not the first time there have been issues. That’s not a bad thing nor is it too much to ask. It’s important to have these discussions.