Page 14 | Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

JustineMumsnet · 2025-02-04T12:13:10+00:00

Hi all, There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again. As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow. It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

JustSawJohnny · 04/02/2025 16:21

I genuinely think the site has been flooded with trolls and possibly bots for a month or so - mostly race baiting ones.

It must be really hard to manage all of this. Maybe it's time to get more professionals in and not leave admin to volunteers?

MeowCatPleaseMeowBack · 04/02/2025 16:18

ilovesooty · 04/02/2025 16:10

Not to mention people threatening to contact their mates in the press, threatening to sue and demanding that MN pay for personal therapy. Of course people want reassurance and information about ongoing procedures to make the site safe but none of the above is helpful.

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Agree with both of you. Some posters were/are gleeful about the chance to berate MNHQ and demand that their wishes are carried out immediately. Someone used the phrase "breathtaking arrogance" and that summed it up nicely.

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 16:17

Sadly, it is now on the BBC

Onlyhereforthebatshitneighbours · 04/02/2025 16:13

ilovesooty · 04/02/2025 16:10

Not to mention people threatening to contact their mates in the press, threatening to sue and demanding that MN pay for personal therapy. Of course people want reassurance and information about ongoing procedures to make the site safe but none of the above is helpful.

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If those are the bad faith actors then I dont disagree with MN disabling the threads they post on / deleting their posts but I'd like mumsnet to clarify please

@JustineMumsnet

dynamiccactus · 04/02/2025 16:12

MN isn't a video sharing platform, that link isn't relevant. The one I linked to is.

ilovesooty · 04/02/2025 16:10

claudiaswinklemen · 04/02/2025 13:31

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible.

I thought this too, just from reading and with no behind the scenes information. I don’t like the tone of, “Will you confirm that you will be taking X action as of three weeks ago?” or “Do you agree until MNHQ have removed all despicable images from the internet, MN should be closed down indefinitely?”.

Not to mention people threatening to contact their mates in the press, threatening to sue and demanding that MN pay for personal therapy. Of course people want reassurance and information about ongoing procedures to make the site safe but none of the above is helpful.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 04/02/2025 16:06

TheWeeDonkeyFella · 04/02/2025 13:18

I reported a post unbelievably playing down csa images, and I expect many others did too, and yet it's still up. 🤷‍♀️

The one saying the images were not traumatic compared to seeing images of children in Gaza?

crowgift · 04/02/2025 16:05

This is the OFCOM page for reports of harmful content that have appeared online

https://ofcomlive.my.salesforce-sites.com/formentry/OSComplaintsHarmfulContent

They deal with compliance with the Online Safety Act 2023.

HalfasleepChrisintheMorning · 04/02/2025 16:03

Probably the best thing would be if the night watch collectively resigned. Paid overnight moderation would have to be used then?

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 16:02

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 16:01

No to be clear I don't blame the NW mods at all for this, of course not.

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I know you don't, but plenty will if this is all over the press.

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 16:01

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 15:56

I have been critical at MN's response but I don't think it will be helpful to have this all over the press.

It is not just MN that would be criticised, it would be the over night volunteers too, despite the fact they did nothing wrong. I really think they have been through enough.

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No to be clear I don't blame the NW mods at all for this, of course not.

ChristmasFluff · 04/02/2025 15:59

There are plenty of smaller and less profitable forums that employ paid moderators 24/7. It's really dismal that this is seen as unimportant by MN, especially after what has happened.

I think there would not have been so much difficulty with 'bad actors' had the thread yesterday been staffed by moderators responding to the genuine concerns of members, rather than people being left to guess and hope and give their opinions in a vacuum. With the occasional pronouncement from a mod or, eventually, Justine, which only seemed to create more upset because of the tone.

This forum would be 100 per cent better if members' genuine concerns were listened to and even acted upon, rather than being seen as a thorn in the organisation's side, which is the impression that is often given.

MzHz · 04/02/2025 15:58

much appreciated - thanks so much

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 15:57

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/make-a-complaint/complain-about-a-video-sharing-platform-vsp/sites-and-apps/harmful-content/

Leaving this here for anyone who is affected by this and not happy with the response from MN.

You can say this is in bad faith and delete this MNHQ or go ahead and delete my account. I believe in public accountability and responsibility for a platform as big as yours, with so many users who have personally relied upon your website in their deepest darkest hours, only to have shambles of a response from this God awful incident.

Close up of a girl on a bed using a mobile phone

Complain about harmful content on a website or app

How to complain about harmful content you've seen on a website or app.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/make-a-complaint/complain-about-a-video-sharing-platform-vsp/sites-and-apps/harmful-content

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 15:56

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 15:39

Yes we should be as loud as fuck about it. You can write to the news outlets to flag this as a story. I have.

The updates are wishy washy, like someone who has made a massive boo boo and is massively trying to deflect attention. Instead focusing on asking people to report PPs if they are overly critical or "causing conflict".

This isn't good enough MN for a major website with a massive public audience and multimillion pound revenue. Each of your updates becomes more and more ludicrous. You are not acting like a professional and accountable organisation, you are trying to look like a side hustle run out of your living room.

Odd isn't it that the press isn't all over this.

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I have been critical at MN's response but I don't think it will be helpful to have this all over the press.

It is not just MN that would be criticised, it would be the over night volunteers too, despite the fact they did nothing wrong. I really think they have been through enough.

Onlyhereforthebatshitneighbours · 04/02/2025 15:56

Onlyhereforthebatshitneighbours · 04/02/2025 15:48

I must say I'm concerned about the line in the op saying certain threads were deleted because of "bad faith actors"

This sounds dangerously like it comes from the Elon Musk school of free speech - 'say what you like unless I don't like it'.

Perhaps I have misunderstood the original post but mumsnet needs to clarify why other threads addressing this were deleted and who they meant by "bad faith actors".

And it's appalling the Nite Watch are unpaid. Doesn't matter if they're experienced users who have "kindly" offered or not, Mumsnet is taking advantage of their good nature (and potentially exploring a person's need to feel useful) in order to reduce costs & not pay them, which is disgraceful.

For example,this thread was straightforward and useful.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5267265-to-wonder-how-many-people-are-aware-of-what-happened-on-mn-last-night-tw?latest=1

Admittedly I didn't read the entire thread before it was taken down, but nor did I see anything that warranted it.

...unless of course it was taken down because mumsnet couldn't control the narrative

dynamiccactus · 04/02/2025 15:51

I assume MN had processes in place under the Online Safety Act anyway.

People need to be aware that Ofcom has made it clear that it realises that it is impossible to stop all illegal content and harmful content, but platforms have to have adequate measures in place to stop the vast majority of it (and take it down if it is posted despite those measures).

Those who are worried about this could do worse than go to the Ofcom website and read their materials about online safety.

MN has had its procedures tested and will no doubt risk assess and improve them (which is exactly what Ofcom envisages happening).

Link here: Online safety - Ofcom and Ofcom's approach to implementing the Online Safety Act - Ofcom

Onlyhereforthebatshitneighbours · 04/02/2025 15:48

I must say I'm concerned about the line in the op saying certain threads were deleted because of "bad faith actors"

This sounds dangerously like it comes from the Elon Musk school of free speech - 'say what you like unless I don't like it'.

Perhaps I have misunderstood the original post but mumsnet needs to clarify why other threads addressing this were deleted and who they meant by "bad faith actors".

And it's appalling the Nite Watch are unpaid. Doesn't matter if they're experienced users who have "kindly" offered or not, Mumsnet is taking advantage of their good nature (and potentially exploring a person's need to feel useful) in order to reduce costs & not pay them, which is disgraceful.

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 15:41

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 15:36

Posters were encouraged by Mumsnet's unpaid - and seemingly untrained - out of hours Night Watch set up to share links to CSA images being hosted on Mumsnet, on the the clearweb.

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Just to clarify, I don't hold the Night Watch volunteers in any way responsible for this. It's very clear they have no been sufficiently trained or supported in how to deal with this sort of thing.
I hope they are OK, and have managed to access support ❤️

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 15:39

Joker01 · 04/02/2025 14:46

Precisely.

Those who viewed the images have been seriously affected. It is not ridiculous to want to know that MN are doing everything they can to ensure this doesn’t happen again, especially considering there have been prior problems and they were aware that there were potential issues ongoing. It’s mad to say we should all just sit quietly.

It was CSA images for fucks sakes. It’s utterly despicable that it was allowed to happen. People should be loud as fuck about this.

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Yes we should be as loud as fuck about it. You can write to the news outlets to flag this as a story. I have.

The updates are wishy washy, like someone who has made a massive boo boo and is massively trying to deflect attention. Instead focusing on asking people to report PPs if they are overly critical or "causing conflict".

This isn't good enough MN for a major website with a massive public audience and multimillion pound revenue. Each of your updates becomes more and more ludicrous. You are not acting like a professional and accountable organisation, you are trying to look like a side hustle run out of your living room.

Odd isn't it that the press isn't all over this.

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 15:39

crowgift · 04/02/2025 15:29

@kittensinthekitchen yes obfuscation is a good word: the fact is that due to a lack of basic filters many (including me) have now been exposed to serious images of child abuse and Mumsnet became the publisher of such images.
Proper moderation would have been a useful second line of defence.

I'm so sorry that you were forced to see those images. I hope you've been able to locate a source of support over that, despite the lack of Mumsnet signposting

kittensinthekitchen · 04/02/2025 15:36

oakleaffy · 04/02/2025 15:27

Surely illegal images of CSA wouldn’t be found on normal web- so any links to illegal stuff would be on darkweb and not accessible by a simple link. ( it was links I was talking about)

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Posters were encouraged by Mumsnet's unpaid - and seemingly untrained - out of hours Night Watch set up to share links to CSA images being hosted on Mumsnet, on the the clearweb.

anyolddinosaur · 04/02/2025 15:33

Thankfully I wasnt looking at the site when the images were posted. The changes being made now should have happened far sooner.

CalicoPusscat · 04/02/2025 15:32

It's been distressing for everyone.

MeowCatPleaseMeowBack · 04/02/2025 15:31

Frequency · 04/02/2025 15:16

It is not just sites like Reddit where you have individual forums/boards set up by users that rely on volunteer mods, pretty much all online chat forums, including other profitable groups like the chat functions on many Bingo/gambling sites.

Whether or not it is right that a profit-making business relies on volunteers is another discussion entirely, but I do feel it is unfair to call MN out on this when it is pretty much industry standard.

I don't think it is unfair, because Mumsnet markets itself as a woman-centred place that fights for women's rights etc etc. Using unpaid female labour for roles that are often paid doesn't sit right with that ethos. Gambling sites aren't pretending to be bastions of women's rights so are held to a different standard.