Page 12 | Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

JustineMumsnet · 2025-02-04T12:13:10+00:00

Hi all, There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again. As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow. It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

PandoraSox · 04/02/2025 17:39

Wetherspoons · 04/02/2025 17:27

Surprised Big Justine hasn't posted in legal advice, they're always giving great advice on there ;)

Edited

Ach, MNHQ have really messed up big time, but some of you seem to be enjoying humiliating Justine. Why?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 17:38

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 17:24

How were these automated controls not triggered on Sunday night? Are the thresholds too high? I wasn't online but presumably there was a record level of reporting for those posts? Are those thresholds often met?

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They weren't triggered and yes, you're right, Sunday night shows clearly that the thresholds were too high for nighttime when there are so many fewer people using the site. So we are recalibrating them.

OP posts:

Wetherspoons · 04/02/2025 17:38

ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/800/cpsprodpb/43cb/live/6b7ecb90-e308-11ef-a470-4fd3f77f90af.jpg.webp

The editorial decision to use that stock photo in the BBC article, knowing the responses Big Justine has been giving is very apt and funny

C8H10N4O2 · 04/02/2025 17:32

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 14:54

Yes I agree that someone Senior needs to be contactable at all times. That's something we're absolutely ensuring is the case going forward.

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@JustineMumsnet @EducatingArti

I wanted to add to this and your previous posts as I largely agree with @EducatingArti

I agree that primary issue is that the images could be posted.

Its good that there will now be someone senior on call and honestly surprising that this was not the case given NW's limited access and capabilities.

I agree that volunteer mods from the community are commonplace, including on large commercial sites. I've been that role on a number of very large commercial sites and written filters and rules for automated mod tools

What I've never done is modded on a site, especially a large and active site which has different reporting and moderation models depending on the time of day. From a purely user experience point of view its really poor and very confusing.

From posts here (and lets face it, most of MN won't even have noticed this whole event) it is clear that users do not understand the night mod process or that their reports will not be picked up until morning. Automated tools are great but can only do so much for text based posts. eg typically they struggle to pick up more carefully worded attacks and dog whistle spread over a number of posts in a thread. The perception then is of reporting something quite nasty and it being ignored until the next day as NW can't see the reports.

Either give NW access to the reporting system to do the job properly or at least issue comms on how it works plus a pop up message on the reporting system to say "also post your report here" with a link to the NW topic.
For user facing simplicity giving NW access to reporting makes much more sense.

Its not unusual to have multiple profiles of mod so that eg new mods or junior mods in this context would see just reports coming in during their shift (without user history access) and keep to hiding/suspending actions only. Their updates to the reporting system would typically be flagged for review by the day shift if needed.

Can you please post a simple explanation of how it works and what users should do at differen times of (UK) day and augment the FAQ pages?

It should be perfectly possible to do this and improve user experience without any security risks -its all about process, not about implementation details.

Wetherspoons · 04/02/2025 17:31

Big Jussy going on about "good-faith" and "trolls"- read the room please lol

gamerchick · 04/02/2025 17:31

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:27

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I.

What does it mean that you don't think I'm posting in good faith? That's just your opinion. I'm a genuine member of MN and very shocked that this has happened, and bitterly disappointed at how this is being handled.

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So what would satisfy you then if nothing that's been said is enough?

Wetherspoons · 04/02/2025 17:27

Surprised Big Justine hasn't posted in legal advice, they're always giving great advice on there ;)

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:27

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 17:19

@Lookuptrees As I said up thread, I have been very critical of MN. However, I am starting to think you have an agenda. You don't appear to be posting in good faith.
What action can MN take that will satisfy you? Are you hoping the site will be shutdown?

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You're entitled to your opinion, as am I.

What does it mean that you don't think I'm posting in good faith? That's just your opinion. I'm a genuine member of MN and very shocked that this has happened, and bitterly disappointed at how this is being handled.

gamerchick · 04/02/2025 17:26

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:16

So if a CSA image is posted there is a minimum number of users who need to view it and report it?

Can you not see this is inadequate?

These responses are getting worse imo and so dismissive and defensive.

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Man you're on a pure mission you, aren't you? Go and have your tea or something.

EducatingArti · 04/02/2025 17:25

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 17:24

How were these automated controls not triggered on Sunday night? Are the thresholds too high? I wasn't online but presumably there was a record level of reporting for those posts? Are those thresholds often met?

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I'm interested in the answer to this too!

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 04/02/2025 17:25

Goodweekincoming · 04/02/2025 16:30

I saw those images, reported immediately and made a comment on the thread for others to do the same straight away and in fairness they were whipped down quickly after reporting but they must have been up a little while for so many to have seen them. I agree with @TheDowagerCountessofPembroke having to look at them to actually be able to report it was hard. I don't even know what Nightwatch is to be honest. I have never come across anything even remotely like that in my life before and frankly I was horrified that it could happen.

What I will say is seeing them really affected me. It was such a shock and it was all I could do not to vomit. I am still thinking about it and I can't get the images out of my head. I won't ever forget them and I really wish I had not gone to comment on a thread about soup that night. You can't unsee that. I have been upset ever since and that might sound dramatic but honestly it was horrific and my brain won't go back to normal. Sorry to all you you who saw them aswell. I can only assume you feel similar to me x

I did the same - my report went in at 11.11 though I reported twice and suspect that was the second time.

It was quite horrific - it took a second to compute in my brain what my eyes were seeing, I was so shocked! I have never seen anything like that and I sincerely hope I never do again.

I wasn't sure whether NightWatch was genuine!

BarbaraHoward · 04/02/2025 17:24

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 17:12

No it's not disingenuous. To be clear there are automated controls in place - if a post is reported a certain number of times or more within a certain timeframe then the post is automatically hidden. But as said we are looking at all our moderation processes and controls. We never want what happened on Sunday night to happen again.

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How were these automated controls not triggered on Sunday night? Are the thresholds too high? I wasn't online but presumably there was a record level of reporting for those posts? Are those thresholds often met?

crowgift · 04/02/2025 17:22

@JustineMumsnet why were there no appropriate filters in place?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 17:20

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:16

So if a CSA image is posted there is a minimum number of users who need to view it and report it?

Can you not see this is inadequate?

These responses are getting worse imo and so dismissive and defensive.

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I do see and that's why we're bringing in the filters I've talked about - we need to stop these images be uploaded in the first place. I don't think we're being dismissive and defensive tbh just correcting misconceptions.

OP posts:

IncaDove · 04/02/2025 17:19

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:16

So if a CSA image is posted there is a minimum number of users who need to view it and report it?

Can you not see this is inadequate?

These responses are getting worse imo and so dismissive and defensive.

Show quote history

@Lookuptrees As I said up thread, I have been very critical of MN. However, I am starting to think you have an agenda. You don't appear to be posting in good faith.
What action can MN take that will satisfy you? Are you hoping the site will be shutdown?

EasternStandard · 04/02/2025 17:19

I'm reading mnhq response as not allowing any images to go up prior to reports

I hope that's the case as no one should be dealing with CSA on here, especially not volunteers, but even if they are paid staff

I think volunteers won't be paid reading the posts which is unfortunate but I guess it's mnhq decision

Yabadabadooooo · 04/02/2025 17:19

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:16

So if a CSA image is posted there is a minimum number of users who need to view it and report it?

Can you not see this is inadequate?

These responses are getting worse imo and so dismissive and defensive.

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It's everything. I've seen threads and post stand for a VERY long time at night (no attacjk on nightwatch here) when they shouldn't have been, so obviously that system is not working because this was on actually active threads at that time of night.

I don't think the "moderation system" is workimg or ever did really and now it's showed in worst time

Lookuptrees · 04/02/2025 17:16

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 17:12

No it's not disingenuous. To be clear there are automated controls in place - if a post is reported a certain number of times or more within a certain timeframe then the post is automatically hidden. But as said we are looking at all our moderation processes and controls. We never want what happened on Sunday night to happen again.

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So if a CSA image is posted there is a minimum number of users who need to view it and report it?

Can you not see this is inadequate?

These responses are getting worse imo and so dismissive and defensive.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 17:12

FloofyKat · 04/02/2025 16:55

Absolutely my point. It’s disingenuous to say that you can you use the report feature 24/7 as this implies it’s monitored- and acted upon - 24/7.

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No it's not disingenuous. To be clear there are automated controls in place - if a post is reported a certain number of times or more within a certain timeframe then the post is automatically hidden. But as said we are looking at all our moderation processes and controls. We never want what happened on Sunday night to happen again.

OP posts:

MariaThomasFangs · 04/02/2025 17:10

ifIwerenotanandroid · 04/02/2025 17:01

Yes, I saw several posts last night that seemed... gleeful, I suppose. And OTT. I assumed they were either part of the operation or using it. If it hadn't been so late I would've searched on the usernames.

I'm grateful not to have seen the images. I'd like to understand what Nightwatch is, as I hadn't come across it before.

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I think the vast majority of posters were just upset, frustrated and maybe even furious, that no one at MN seemed to be taking it as seriously as it should have been. Some of the posts from MNHQ were downright dismissive.

Some of the posts, like the ones trying to get people to contact the media, I agree, seemed to be agenda fuelled, but many were deleted that seemed perfectly reasonable to me. It is a big deal and people have every right to be furious about it.

ilovesooty · 04/02/2025 17:06

ifIwerenotanandroid · 04/02/2025 17:01

Yes, I saw several posts last night that seemed... gleeful, I suppose. And OTT. I assumed they were either part of the operation or using it. If it hadn't been so late I would've searched on the usernames.

I'm grateful not to have seen the images. I'd like to understand what Nightwatch is, as I hadn't come across it before.

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The posting threatening the press, encouraging people to sue and demanding MN pay for personal therapy for those who'd seen the images was yesterday afternoon. It seemed to me to have the motive of trying to bring the whole site down.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 04/02/2025 17:01

claudiaswinklemen · 04/02/2025 13:31

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible.

I thought this too, just from reading and with no behind the scenes information. I don’t like the tone of, “Will you confirm that you will be taking X action as of three weeks ago?” or “Do you agree until MNHQ have removed all despicable images from the internet, MN should be closed down indefinitely?”.

Yes, I saw several posts last night that seemed... gleeful, I suppose. And OTT. I assumed they were either part of the operation or using it. If it hadn't been so late I would've searched on the usernames.

I'm grateful not to have seen the images. I'd like to understand what Nightwatch is, as I hadn't come across it before.

FloofyKat · 04/02/2025 16:59

JustineMumsnet · 04/02/2025 15:00

As said upthread the Report button works 24-7

"it’s always worth reporting posts, no matter the time of day. We have various automated moderation controls in place that operate outside of business hours, and we are actively working to strengthen these further. While we won’t go into detail for security reasons, we want to reassure you that reports do play a role in flagging issues at any time."

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It’s disingenuous to say that you can you use the report feature 24/7 as this implies it’s monitored- and acted upon - 24/7. When it clearly is not the reality. Just admit the set-up is not fit for purpose and make the changes needed. Which I’m sure you are / will be.

FloofyKat · 04/02/2025 16:55

maudelovesharold · 04/02/2025 16:52

As said upthread the Report button works 24-7

I think what this means is that you can indeed generate a report at any time of the day or night. So the Report button technically works 24/7. However, what isn’t being made clear, is that if you use it at night, no-one will see said report until the paid mods clock on in the morning. That’s rather disingenuous of Justine, imo.

Absolutely my point. It’s disingenuous to say that you can you use the report feature 24/7 as this implies it’s monitored- and acted upon - 24/7.

maudelovesharold · 04/02/2025 16:52

As said upthread the Report button works 24-7

I think what this means is that you can indeed generate a report at any time of the day or night. So the Report button technically works 24/7. However, what isn’t being made clear, is that if you use it at night, no-one will see said report until the paid mods clock on in the morning. That’s rather disingenuous of Justine, imo.