Why aren’t you banning the far-right agitators?

Isn't negotation what you want?

Hang on, are you suggesting some posters on here support Hamas? That is a very serious accusation that you need to be able to prove.

I know very well we are not at war with Hamas.

I’m very obviously (to anyone with critical thinking skills) making the point that the same people who want ‘zero tolerance, no debate’ with EDL thugs are the same people who would encourage negotiation and compromise with Hamas - whose tactics are arguably much worse and involve rape and murder.

People also say ‘Hamas don’t know what they want’ and they reject ceasefires, compromise etc. Yet the likes of Corbyn even calls them ‘friends’ and encouraged dialogue between them and the Israeli government.

I would like to see the same posters who say there should be zero debate with the EDL say the same about Hamas, to show their consistency. They won’t - because like the far right they’re very choosy and selective about who they call terrorists and it mainly depends on their own personal feelings about race and politics.

We also aren’t at war with Hamas.

The people rioting are not necessarily open to debate and who do you debate with? From what I see on local Facebook groups they are not quite sure what they are protesting about. The majority of immigrants are here legally and did not come via ‘the boats’ but are treated the same. When challenged you are accused of believing MSM and told to educate yourself yet they don’t provide links. It’s the same method used during Brexit, by Covid deniers and anti vaccine campaigners.

The UK isn’t at war with Russia. Zelensky can if he sees fit. But I think somebody advocating for one violent extremist group to be considered and negotiated with are on very shaky ground if they say another shouldn’t be (arguably setting fire to a police station isn’t as bad as raping/murdering people and parading their bodies through the streets). I’m very much in favour of ceasefire and an end to the occupation of Gaza, but I like to think I see things in a nuanced and objective way.

You think the UK should negotiate with Putin over Ukraine?

I honestly can't take any posters seriously that consider Brexit (a free and fair democratic vote that 52% of people voted for) to be 'far right'.

Idiotic claims that they're being 'held hostage' by the 'far right' because people expected their democratic decision to be implemented.

🙄

If Brexit is considered to be far right, how can you expect Mumsnet to take you seriously or to act upon your (presumably complete nonsense) thread and post reporting?

Why do you only care about British soil? You only find it ‘disgusting’ because you can’t answer and will now neatly dodge.

Either you disagree with negotiating with violent extremist groups or you don’t. It’s an absolutist principle and shouldn’t depend on your own personal leanings. That’s not how diplomacy and negotiation works.

As I suspected this is much more about individuals posturing than actually caring about peace.

Indeed - considering how long it took him to be elected as an MP he doesn't seem particularly committed to it so far

Plus Farage has had a voice in the UK media for years and years eg frequent appearances on BBC

It's an entirely false grievance

The EDL is closer to Isis because they are launching attacks on British soil against UK civilians for some amorphous "cause" that the majority want nothing to do with.

Hamas is a false equivalence. And I find bringing up Gaza in this context completely disgusting and I'm not engaging with it.

The Imam from the Abdullah Quilliam Mosque in Liverpool reached out to the rioters with an offer of food and talks, not sure if many took up the offer, but it's there.

Quite.

From where I am the UK government of the last 10 years has bent over backwards to accommodate these peoples "reasonable concerns" at the expense of the rest of us.

Years of torturous brexit negotiations that were never good enough for the people who "want our country back". Billions earmarked on a scheme that was not going to work to Stop the Boats.

Now we've voted to stop pandering to them, they are kicking off like toddlers.

Oh please just answer the question and stop being so slippery. Why is the EDL (because let’s face it that’s who this is) closer to ISIS? Are you aware of what happened in Israel in October? Would you say Hamas, despite this, are worthy of negotiation?

I would be really impressed if you just answered in a straightforward way rather than professionally dodging to fit your inconsistent worldview.

False equivalence and whataboutery. I can't take you seriously when you equate the UK to Gaza.

A better example would be did we negotiate with Al Quaida or ISIS?

Reform have a voice in Parliament now, Farage didn't show up to the debate on the Southport killings, turned to SM instead, Anderson shared fake news online about asylums seekers and a hotel.

Do you agree with negotiation with Hamas to bring an end to the conflict in Gaza?

Negotiation only works if the parties are clear what they want.

These thugs have no clue, other than white supremacy. There is nothing to "negotiate".

Most people would say you don't negotiate with terrorists.

It's good however that you are acknowledging that what they are doing is terrorism. A wave of terror attacks against the British. That's how I feel too.

I mean encouraging both extremes to meet and have a public conversation assisted by intermediaries.

Airing poison

What do you mean with that?

Excellent post. Extinguishing dissent and ignoring in the meantime does not work.

Tbh I wonder if the same people calling for zero tolerance and zero debate here are the same people supporting a negotiation process with Hamas and, back in the day, the IRA and loyalist paramilitaries - groups that have engaged in behaviour MUCH worse than anything that took place last night.

Negotiation and airing the poison is the only way forwards, no matter how unpalatable.

What are you talking about??

The Reform "contract" said they wanted to militarise the police and make the police exempt from human rights law. How do you think a militarised police above the law would be handling these riots?

Seriously, piss off back to twitter with that nonsense. The far right are the very opposite of "silenced". They've held the country hostage for years and I'm heartily sick of hearing about their "reasonable concerns"

Oh the irony. We have the moderate middle virtue signalling wanting to silence people. Whilst TR is pushing us towards fascism whilst shouting "we are being silenced" oh heck, get their way we will all be silenced. And then those same middle moderates espousing equality and freedom whilst shooting down the far left that actually agitated for those rights! and over here on the left, I have no desire to silence anyone and would prefer to see robust debate. Part of me dispairs more at the naive central ground cheerleaders of state control than the idiot right wing that push for this.

The thread’s gone now, but that is a very good question.
Perhaps they’re simply overwhelmed, if bots are involved.

I simply can't believe that you would let a thread like this stand. Especially as you took it down initially.

What the actual fuck is going on at MNHQ?