Why aren’t you banning the far-right agitators?

Are MN still relying on volunteers for the night watch? That's surprising given the size of the site and the amount of revenue that it must generate, but it might explain quite a lot. I wonder what training and guidance is provided.

Agree.

I'd say disinformation in general though.

Certainly MN needs to wake up to the fact that the spreading of disinformation is a concerted operation.

THIS!

Especially at night.

Yes to this.

MN is definitely being targeted.

Some of the agitation is crude and some has a little more sophistication.

But it's all generating clicks.

Nope.

And what a disingenuous post.

Was that the one speculating about possible motives? I reported that one as well for the same reasons, and was surprised to see it was still up today.

Yes, I think there is an increasing number of posts that are deliberately worded in such a way as to avoid moderation while still making their racist points. They know how to play the game.

I just feel that what they're doing is so incredibly obvious and I really don't understand why MN doesn't just shut them down and ban those posters when they show what they're here for. I'm all in favour of a lively and robust debate - indeed, that is one of the things that I have always loved about MN - but you can't debate with hate because it isn't about evidence or logic.

I have no doubt that moderating these boards is a difficult job and I suppose they may be doing it in the way they think best. I did feel really sorry for them when things really started kicking off the other night as there were so many threads at once. I suppose I just feel constantly disappointed that they don't adopt more of a zero tolerance approach.

Well I care, for one. I reported a thread which I was concerned could seriously prejudice any future trial, and which included speculation about the suspect as well as a
presumption of guilt. I received a reply from HQ informing me they were taking a look.

Nothing further. That thread is still up.

I guess having over 30,000 posts per day can make moderation hard, and there will be a massive uptick when there is a huge, traumatic event.

Recognising what is racist is perhaps a personal bar and I guess it is hard for MNHQ to draw where the line has been crossed?

I might see something as racist, MNHQ might see it as a robust viewpoint or something. The outright in your face racism is easy to spot. It is the insidious racism that can fly under the radar. But even then, there are words and phrases that are used which flag it up for what it really is. There have been a lot of those phrases used over the past few days!

I also think there is some targeted reporting or winding up of more moderate posters who don't name change to get them banned, but that might just be me taking my experiences personally.

There’s definitely some of that going on. Unfortunately it’s a perennial problem.

I don't know if it's a genuine feeling they supported free speech when womens rights were very threatened in 2015 ish. They put themselves in the firing line good and proper then and got lots of issues as a result.

But it seems to have gone too far the other way.

Not sure what the answer is as it happens everywhere. I think maybe a bit more leniency towards posters highlighting racism or similar would be helpful as at the moment there are posters who will report "personal attacks" if they even perceive any implication you think they are being racist for example. I think it should be possible to say "what you wrote sounds racist because xyz" without it being taken as "an attack"

I also think there is some targeted reporting or winding up of more moderate posters who don't name change to get them banned, but that might just be me taking my experiences personally.

It's quite tricky to post here at the moment I think.

I hope I am being too cynical. I'm just struggling to see any other reason why MN would leave some of the stuff to stand.

What exactly are they afraid of when it comes to deleting those "obviously racist but carefully worded" posts? What is stopping them from deleting them?

I genuinely don't get it. I find it really hard to believe that they don't recognise the racism when they see it. And I would like to believe that MNHQ aren't bought into that kind of thinking. So why do they leave that stuff to stand? Apart from a possible loss of users and therefore revenue, what would be the risks of just zapping each and every one of them?

Is it because they don't see what these posters are doing? Is it that they believe that valuing freedom of speech means that they have to give the racists a platform?

Don't be a racist, it's quite simple.

This

I think that is maybe a tad cynical.

But I do find it very frustrating that the obviously racist but very careful posters stay up. They are usually the ones who disingenuously ask a question in their first post.

You have to know a fair amount about MAGA , Farage, and Tate to see the playbook.

Clouded reference to the Leeds riots is an example and straight from Farage ( although he outright blamed 'South Asia') Making spurious claims about un Christian Olympic opening ceremonies comes largely from the American Right.

I have seen those two things today.

And globalism, liberal elite, progressive, North London. Saw that one straight after someone else told me I was being ridiculous.

I sometimes wonder if some of these posters actually are Farage.He seems a bit bored .

To be honest, by Mumsnet standards I am far right. I find some of the views on here to be absolutely ridiculous but I usually just try and click off a thread. Partly because there's no point even having the conversation with people who are so far the other way and refuse to ever even consider other viewpoints.

Certain topics are easy to avoid, the high volumes in aibu and chat have been different.

Hopefully it will calm down now that the PM has come down hard on SM and fake websites.

Might be useful to remember that he was Director of Public Prosecutions during the 2011 riots in London.

I would like to think that money isn't a consideration, but realistically, I think it will be. I imagine that MN is trying to achieve a balance that causes the least number of people to abandon the site. I'm sure that they know that they will lose a few along the way no matter what they do, m because you're never going to keep everyone happy. And as a business, it probably matters less who you lose and more how many. And unfortunately, the posters objecting to the racism on these boards seem to be in a minority at the moment.

OK. This was the exchange that I think upset you.

dottiehens · 30/07/2024 10:42
Who is the attacker?

PandoraSox · 30/07/2024 10:43 A 17 year old who was born in Cardiff. Have you not read the news today?

I was a little brusque, it is true. I apologise profusely.

ETA: or was it this that offended you?

dottiehens · 30/07/2024 10:50
I wanted a name and a photo and a real reason not speculation.
Show quote history
PandoraSox · 30/07/2024 10:54Why a photo? You won't get his name either as he is only 17. The police have confirmed he was born in Cardiff and his age, so that is fact not speculation, btw.

We did have another exchange on that thread, when I replied to another of your posts, but sadly MNHQ deleted your post.

Anyway, don't want to turn this into a TAAT!

oops quoted myself in error!

I'm appalled by the boxing thing and I'm as gender critical as they come, but a lot of the FWR threads do seem to have been taken over by the right wing. I don't really bother reading them any more.

It's really sad that everything comes down to money :(
Makes me wonder if there really is no point to posting here any more

unfortunately there is a a heavy air of transphobia permeating through many sub forums of the board for a long time now.

Do you include the thread running at the moment about the women’s boxing at the Olympics?