Why do you allow people to attack and ridicule Christianity?

I agree with your last post @AllProperTeaIsTheft

I think there is a different attitude, it seems to me that anyone can make anti christian comments and make jokes, draw cartoons and be openly hostile to christians and their views calling them loons or whatever. However, once this is applied to other religions - probably with the exception of the jewish faith it is viewed as some form of phobia. Either we protect all religions or none.

I don't think religious people really try to understand atheism. What is there to understand? It's an absence of belief in what we regard as a made-up thing. I find religion fascinating in a cultural, psychological, social and anthropological sense. I can totally understand why people might want to believe in gods and be a part of an organised religion, but I still find it hard to get my head around how they manage to actually convince themselves that it's real. I guess quite a lot of them don't - they just go along with it because it's comforting and because they like the community feel.

You think that is what you are doing, but I doubt you've ever tried to understand from the atheists perspective. But you telling yourself that makes you feel superior.

And as for rudeness, "I'll pray for you" is a very rude thing to say to an atheist, but I've heard it many times.

it's just about understanding what they believe, their perspective. I feel interested in other faiths as I do in other cultures. and you can find things you relate to even if you don't share their faith. eg. talking about how charity is important in society etc. it just allows you to get to know another person better, and feel closer to them.
in terms of dialogue on here, if someone is 100% set on your views with no room for changing them or no curiosity about other's belief then why even be on a discussion forum? because ultimately people with that sort of mindset end up shouting about their beliefs and not being civil about the opinions of others.

anyway, I think civility is always a prerequisite to any dialogue. if anyone has issues understanding that, perhaps they should ask themselves why that is?

I also have no interest in anyone trying to persuade me to believe in what they believe. Which Christians are inclined to do.

No, not all Christians do.

"we can believe or not believe but just be civil to each other and try and understand each other's views (without agreeing). but starting the conversation by saying "you lot believe in made up nonsense" won't lead to constructive dialogue"

What kind of constructive dialogue is really necessary or possible though? If somebody talked to you about their belief in something you felt really absolutely certain was made up, would you really start making efforts to understand their views? What is there to understand? You either believe in it or you don't.

@Limesodaagain "we can believe or not believe but just be civil to each other and try and understand each other's views (without agreeing). but starting the conversation by saying "you lot believe in made up nonsense" won't lead to constructive dialogue"

What sort of constructive dialogue do you think can happen? I have no interest in trying to stop people believing in whatever they want to believe. I have a lot of interest in stopping them imposing their beliefs on me or on the society I live in. I also have no interest in anyone trying to persuade me to believe in what they believe. Which Christians are inclined to do.

I agree. 'You are delusional' is just rude, and is criticising the specific person rather than the religion. How about, for example, 'I think it's utterly baffling that so many people base their way of life and moral compass on the supposed laws and guidance of a deity for whose existence there been not a single shred of evidence for the whole 2000 years or so that the religion has existed'? Less rude. Definitely factual, but with an opinion. Is that mocking?

Ditto.

Do you think that expressing any negative view of a religion, or stating that there is no evidence of any god, is 'mocking'?

No, not at all. "I don't believe in God because there is no tangible evidence that he exists" if a perfectly valid thing to say. "You are delusional to believe in a non existent being" is not.

She doesn't. She is absolutely correct that nobody on here would ever call a Muslim or a Sikh or a Jew delusional or stupid or any of the other things that are frequently said about Christians

I haven’t seen anyone call Jewish or Sikh beliefs stupid on here but no doubt been done. I have definitely seen Islam criticised.

Look at any of the recent pro-reform party threads. There’s usually a bit in there about brown “invaders” coming with their “backward religion” and sometimes it’s far more explicit than that in other threads, often triggered by someone mentioning for example they or their adult child is in a relationship with a Muslim.

Absolutely outrageous to suggest Muslims have some sort of special status on here. Anyone who says that is either new to MN/ don’t frequently read the threads or are deliberately ignoring the reality. Open your eyes.

Absolutely. Well said

you are absolutely entitled to that view. what anyone with your view is not entitled to do is to say to anyone who is religous "you are delusional or you must be stupid to believe x"
also aggressively going upto a religous person (Christian or otherwise) to say "your religion is made up nonsense"

equally no religous person is entitled to go up to an atheist and say "your lack of faith is moronic and you are doomed to burn in hell"

we can believe or not believe but just be civil to each other and try and understand each other's views (without agreeing). but starting the conversation by saying "you lot believe in made up nonsense" won't lead to constructive dialogue.

as a Muslim I can categorically tell you that is false. there is a great deal of islamophobia on mumsnet and a lot of aggressive hateful commentary regarding Islam (with zero understanding of the actual religion). all done dressed up as 'free speech' whereas really it's hatespeech.

everyone should be free to believe what they want. posters should be able to discuss all religions while remaining civil and accepting their opinions are not facts.

I do feel that there is perhaps a bit more of an open season on Christianity because there are many who come from a Christian backgrounds but are not atheist and they therefore feel they have the license to be disparaging about Christianity.

Yes, that's the stance I take. But some people (and countries) do, to the point of militancy and extreme intolerance.

Men write all sorts of things to control people.

I don't define myself by being an atheist, but if asked I'll happily explain my stand point.

No idea, but I 'met' a few while going through a difficult time in my life.

It depends how you express your opinion doesn't it @Werweisswohin

"I think you are delusional" is mocking "I don't believe in God" isn't. Surely, you have the social awareness to know the difference? Don't you?

Do you think that expressing any negative view of a religion, or stating that there is no evidence of any god, is 'mocking'?

Go for it then. But if you are going to mock Christianity then try mocking other religious faiths while you’re at it … see how you get on

I'm not sure how 'Go for it then' is a relevant response to my post that you quoted (which was asking whether Christians (and/or people of other faiths) extend the same respect they demand for their own religion to all kinds of beliefs held by other people.

That's possibly why, then. There are a significant number of incredibly aggressive American Christians. The Westboro Baptist Church is one of the most famous but there are many, many other groups like them. Even outside of those extremes, a large proportion of US Christians regard anyone who's not Christian - and they've frequently got a very narrow definition of what "Christian" ism that often even excludes followers of the Roman Catholic church - as untrustworthy, actual or potential sex offenders, outright evil and/or devil worshippers who deserve to burn forever.

That being said I have encountered a few quite rude Christians over here. The Mormons I've had turn up at my door have generally been delightful, if incredibly sheltered. Some of the JWs, though, seemed very keen to try to position my disbelief in gods as some kind of deliberate choice motivated by a desire to do bad things. At least they don't think I deserve to burn in hell.

Probably because you're already a Christian. It's quite simple logic if you think about it.

Although my DW is a strong Catholic, and she often meets "rampant Christians" insisting that religion should be done in their particular way (usually the Alpha Course), rather than accepting it as a personal thing.

Great post, especially the final paragraph.

I have encountered some combative atheists irl - usually men trying to draw me into arguments etc. But my ex (who is the loveliest ex I have!) was a left wing atheist. His best mate was a Muslim guy.

He had criticisms of the organised church & conservative extremists but didn’t mock Christianity or Islam - at least not to my knowledge!

Most people I know just get along but you’ll always get the more argumentative or even hostile ones in every group.

But let’s not pretend that Muslims don’t get abused online and offline.

Some people only care with their group is being insulted, but I walked out of a church service once when the pastor made a completely unnecessary dig about the Muslim community.

Seriously, though, you either live in an area where people don’t proselytize or they don’t think they have to because you already belong.

At any rate all other religions are slso made fun of, or held in contempt by someone, but it just doesn’t have salience for you. Whenever and wherever a religion has power it will try to enforce blasphemy laws to suppress criticism. In the UK you have only recently lost this power. Its not like you never had it. And many people who you see as impermissably attacking your religion are simply revelling in a new found freedom to speak their mind on a matter of importance to them.

In my life I’ve met 0 rampant Christian’s, and 3 what I always call militant atheists (they are not actually militant but what I mean is shoving their beliefs down my throat in a forceful way!). However I am aware that my Christian-ness probably brings out the preachiness in atheists and maybe the preachy Christian’s don’t target me as they think they will be preaching to the converted? I did have Jehovahs witnesses knock on the door and my dog chased them away