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Disability hate on MN

559 replies

IClaudine · 02/05/2024 13:31

Hi MNHQ

Since Sunak’s announcement on disability benefits, there has been a big increase on MN in hostility towards people who receive then.

The abuse, hate and outright lies (my neighbour’s son’s cousin’s wife climbs Mount Everest but gets PIP etc) being spewed on MN towards disabled people, a group with protected characteristics, has been dreadful and very distressing for disabled people and their loved ones to read,

Please can you do something?

Here is a small selection of the threads where the disability benefit bashers have paid a visit and had a field day. There may be more, but I can’t face searching for them!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064828-to-be-terrified-about-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share  

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5065470-people-who-work-have-anxiety-too?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5066670-aibu-to-hope-that-able-bodied-people-will-support-disabled-people-against-the-tory-attack-on-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5064856-pip-vouchers-to-replace-money?reply=134966246&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5066331-do-you-feel-bad-for-receiving-a-high-amount-of-uc?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Italianita · 04/07/2025 08:14

LadyKenya · 03/07/2025 13:07

This. I find the transphobia especially off the scale on MN, and that is saying something.

I don't think I've ever seen transphobia on Mumsnet?

I have seen many many posters not wanting womens rights to be eroded.

I've seen many many posters not wanting people who have (or have had) a penis, in womens spaces and womens sports.

But I haven't seen transphobia.
That would mean a fear of transpeople or dislike/ hatred of transpeople wouldn't it?
I haven't seen that.

Bumpitybumper · 04/07/2025 07:36

TigerRag · 04/07/2025 07:28

MNHQ who may have no experience of ableism.

No one has suggested that the benefits system needs an overhaul. But there are suggestions from posters with zero experience who claim everyone they know is faking it

You don't need direct experience of ableism to be able to judge what it is and apply an objective test to a post to see if it meets the required threshold. The fact that you think someone does need to have experienced ableism to judge when it's present implies that you think that someone's judgement should be influenced and informed by personal experience as opposed to objective fact which actually would have the potential to introduce sensitivity and bias.

Perhaps some people do know a lot of people that are 'faking it's. How do you know this isn't true? How do I know that what you're telling me about your own situation is anymore true than what they are claiming? Don't you see that a moderator like MN also can't make these judgements either easily.

TigerRag · 04/07/2025 07:28

Bumpitybumper · 04/07/2025 06:57

Not necessarily, no. The whole premise of this thread is that many of the posters on this thread think that various posts are ableist and should be removed. MNHQ, an objective party with nothing to gain from leaving up ableist posts (and a lot to lose!) have disagreed. In this context, I think it's fair to say that there are posters on this thread that are particularly sensitive to discussion on this topic and will accuse others are ableism when the threshold has not been met.

This isn't unique to this topic and you will see that often on abortion threads where pro-lifers are routinely accused of being misogynist, gender critical posters are accused of Transphobia or even on Royal Family threads where criticism of Meghan Markle is assumed to be rooted in racism. I think for many people on this thread suggesting that reform of the benefits system is necessary and explaining why it might be needed is inherently ableist.

MNHQ who may have no experience of ableism.

No one has suggested that the benefits system needs an overhaul. But there are suggestions from posters with zero experience who claim everyone they know is faking it

Bumpitybumper · 04/07/2025 06:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Not necessarily, no. The whole premise of this thread is that many of the posters on this thread think that various posts are ableist and should be removed. MNHQ, an objective party with nothing to gain from leaving up ableist posts (and a lot to lose!) have disagreed. In this context, I think it's fair to say that there are posters on this thread that are particularly sensitive to discussion on this topic and will accuse others are ableism when the threshold has not been met.

This isn't unique to this topic and you will see that often on abortion threads where pro-lifers are routinely accused of being misogynist, gender critical posters are accused of Transphobia or even on Royal Family threads where criticism of Meghan Markle is assumed to be rooted in racism. I think for many people on this thread suggesting that reform of the benefits system is necessary and explaining why it might be needed is inherently ableist.

PandoraSocks · 03/07/2025 22:54

This reply has been deleted

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Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 21:26

Dollenganger333 · 03/07/2025 21:20

Hmmm. No your posts are ableist because they’re….ableist.

Nope, they really aren't. It's like the TRAs deciding that anyone who is gender critical is transphobic. You're diluting the meaning of the word by misusing it like this. People can be critical of a system relating to the disabled or even an individual with a disability without it being ableist.

Dollenganger333 · 03/07/2025 21:20

Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 12:55

Are you suggesting I am ableist because perhaps I have disagreed with you?

Hmmm. No your posts are ableist because they’re….ableist.

buttnut · 03/07/2025 16:18

Samcro · 02/07/2025 11:52

WTF so we need a crystal ball now. mine and all the ones I know are severely disabled because of issue with the birth.

Right so enough money put aside to be able to live and pay all the bills/mortgage and clothe and feed yourself plus the person you have to care for, potentially for the rest of your life, without receiving a penny in benefits. How much money is that exactly? How many people would actually be able to have a baby if that was required?

Witchling · 03/07/2025 14:17

There also needs to be some looking at these kinds of posts - where someone who dares to question anything that someone on disability benefits is doing, gets put in the 'jealousy' bucket. I am not jealous of anyone on benefits at all, I recognise I am lucky to be able to survive without needing them.

This is a reply on a post I was on.

Witchling · 29/06/2025 22:18

Petitchat · 29/06/2025 21:26
I may be wrong but I get the feeling that the stupid comments may be from people who are jealous that OP receives disability money.
There's a lot of bitterness about disability benefits just now for some reason and it might have been better if OP hadn't mentioned it.
Sad, but that's the way things seem to be....
Show quote history

jealous that OP receives disability money
Yes, I'm totally jealous of the pittance the government gives people who are on disability benefits and in no way grateful that I dont need them.

Piggywaspushed · 03/07/2025 14:12

Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 12:54

Then don't use Mumsnet. It really is the only option. They have taken a view on where the threshold lies for them on their forum. I happen to agree with their stance but if you don't then I don't see practically how you can be happy here.

Jeez, what you are suggesting there is quite something.

Piggywaspushed · 03/07/2025 14:11

PhilippaGeorgiou · 03/07/2025 13:00

And this post very ably demonstrates what I and others are talking about. You may not agree, but I do not need to "keep some perspective" - the perspective I have is perfectly fine thank you.

The reason we are saying this is because we do not trust MN to moderate appropriately ..."Suggesting that the only reason that people could want to label Motability cars is because it is 'reminiscent of 'Nazi Germany' is ridiculously offensive in itself to the victims of this regime and complete hyperbole." - I do not care if it is the only reason or one of 20 reasons - it is offensive, it is definitely reminiscent of Nazi Germany even if there are 19 other explanations as well, and it should not stand. If you suggested "marking black people" I know damned well what the response would be from every poster with any humanity in them - even if there were 19 reasons other than racism for the comment. You may not be offended. That doesn't make it inoffensive.

And I am not upset, thanks very much. I am angry. A rather different thing. When you have walked in the skin of someone with severe disability and heard all the lies and hatred peddled this last few weeks, you might be angry too.

This is brilliant. Brava.

Piggywaspushed · 03/07/2025 14:09

Touche.

PandoraSocks · 03/07/2025 13:17

Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 13:09

Except they're not. I believe that @mnhq should take a hard stance on those accusing posters of ableism when someone dares suggest something that other posters don't like. It is hugely offensive and just works to shut down debate.

Maybe you should hide the thread if it upsets you?

Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 13:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Except they're not. I believe that @mnhq should take a hard stance on those accusing posters of ableism when someone dares suggest something that other posters don't like. It is hugely offensive and just works to shut down debate.

LadyKenya · 03/07/2025 13:07

Piggywaspushed · 03/07/2025 12:37

The 'airing them so they can be shut down' defence is also used for racism, homophobia , transphobia , all easily found on MN.

It sucks.

This. I find the transphobia especially off the scale on MN, and that is saying something.

PandoraSocks · 03/07/2025 13:03

PhilippaGeorgiou · 03/07/2025 13:02

I hope you have your marker on it.

Inverted black triangle is the right one, I think?

PhilippaGeorgiou · 03/07/2025 13:02

PandoraSocks · 03/07/2025 13:00

This. I would post some examples but it would be a TAAT and get deleted.

Anyway, I am off out with my DH in our (checks notes)* * "luxury car".

Edited

I hope you have your marker on it.

PandoraSocks · 03/07/2025 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This. I would post some examples but it would be a TAAT and get deleted.

Anyway, I am off out with my DH in our (checks notes)* * "luxury car".

PhilippaGeorgiou · 03/07/2025 13:00

Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 12:42

@PhilippaGeorgiou
Sorry, but I am gobsmacked that MNHQ considers it appropriate to post several patronising posts about what they think ableism is, or what they think are offensive comments about disabled people. Some people have engaged with reasoned arguments, yes, and whilst we may not always agree with them, that is legitimate - we don't always even agree with each other. But "my uncles third cousin / the random person living three streets away that I have never spoken to falsely claims PIP" is hate speech. Nobody, but nobody, lives in the skin of the person they are talking about. Comments about "marking our cars with a sign" are reminiscent of Nazi Germany and there is literally no other reasonable way to interpret such a comment. It is astonishing that MNHQ delete perfectly acceptable comments because someone doesn't like them yet cannot delete obviously offensive posts that dozens of people are reporting

This post highlights perfectly how unreasonable some posters are being. MNHQ have taken an objective view of what is ableist. You absolutely don't have to be disabled to apply an objective test in the same way that you don't have to be a woman to judge if a post is misogynistic. I assume by underlining the word 'they' you are suggesting that they are intrinsically incapable of applying an objective test because they aren't disabled. This is nonsensical. The idea also that comments should be removed just because a proportion of the forum's population could find them offensive would render a forum like Mumsnet completely unworkable. I read posts everyday that offend me on important issues like abortion, women's rights etc, it absolutely doesn't give me the right to shut down debates and discussion because I find them offensive or a sensitive topic.

People post anecdotes. Again, that's how a forum like MN works. You may post about your experience as a disabled person to educate people, others may post about their experience of the benefits system and the people they know that use it. Very few people are stupid enough to post on a public forum like MN and openly admit they abuse the system. It would be crazy to do this! We can't just assume though that it isn't happening and lots of people will know enough about family members and friends to know it's happening. They are as entitled to post about this as you are entitled to post about your life experiences. The weighting you put on their anecdotes and how accurate you perceive them to be is completely subjective. The internet is the wild west and we have no idea if anyone is who they say they are or if they're telling the truth about anything. It would be foolish to take down posts about people that allege to know that their acquaintance is fiddling the system on the basis that this may be inaccurate when every single post on this forum may well be inaccurate.

Suggesting that the only reason that people could want to label Motability cars is because it is 'reminiscent of 'Nazi Germany' is ridiculously offensive in itself to the victims of this regime and complete hyperbole.

You need to keep some perspective. Criticism is not automatically hate speech. Conflating the two is hugely dangerous and just works to shut down debate and discussion. We desperately need to keep debate and discussion going as when this ends it only leaves space for extremism to grow. If it's a sensitive topic then stay away from threads that you know will upset you and trust MN to moderate appropriately.

And this post very ably demonstrates what I and others are talking about. You may not agree, but I do not need to "keep some perspective" - the perspective I have is perfectly fine thank you.

The reason we are saying this is because we do not trust MN to moderate appropriately ..."Suggesting that the only reason that people could want to label Motability cars is because it is 'reminiscent of 'Nazi Germany' is ridiculously offensive in itself to the victims of this regime and complete hyperbole." - I do not care if it is the only reason or one of 20 reasons - it is offensive, it is definitely reminiscent of Nazi Germany even if there are 19 other explanations as well, and it should not stand. If you suggested "marking black people" I know damned well what the response would be from every poster with any humanity in them - even if there were 19 reasons other than racism for the comment. You may not be offended. That doesn't make it inoffensive.

And I am not upset, thanks very much. I am angry. A rather different thing. When you have walked in the skin of someone with severe disability and heard all the lies and hatred peddled this last few weeks, you might be angry too.

TigerRag · 03/07/2025 12:57

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Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 12:55

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Are you suggesting I am ableist because perhaps I have disagreed with you?

Bumpitybumper · 03/07/2025 12:54

ValleyClouds · 03/07/2025 12:48

trust MN to moderate appropriately

I don’t trust them to, I’ve seen far too much bullshit left standing

Then don't use Mumsnet. It really is the only option. They have taken a view on where the threshold lies for them on their forum. I happen to agree with their stance but if you don't then I don't see practically how you can be happy here.

PandoraSocks · 03/07/2025 12:53

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ValleyClouds · 03/07/2025 12:50

@Piggywaspushed I do hide most Disability threads actually I might look in and only comment if I think I have something to offer. It has improved my MN experience

ValleyClouds · 03/07/2025 12:48

trust MN to moderate appropriately

I don’t trust them to, I’ve seen far too much bullshit left standing