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Original poster

Jewish Mumsnetter Section

380 replies

Asthebellcurves · 14/10/2023 14:43

I was asked by Mumsnet to start a post here to request a Jewish Mumsnetter section. This request comes out of a thread where Jewish people were discussing ethnic and religious identities that was then co-opted by others refusing to provide space for those conversations. Thus illustrating the need for a distinct Jewish space on here. Of course, Jewish conversation and contribution is valuable across mumsnet, but a neat space for Jewish perspectives to be protected and valued is a great addition - just as Black, South Asian, Welsh, Irish and Scottish mumsnetters have and benefit from.

”When it comes to starting new boards, we're pretty much guided by what our users want. The Black Mumsnetters, SE Asian MNers, Craicnet, etc came about because users started threads requesting their own space. We'll certainly give consideration to a Jewish Mumsnetters section if there is demand. You're quite welcome to start a thread in Site Stuff to ask if others feel the same.”

I know many of us have felt very hurt by the moderation of Mumsnet this week, as anti semitic posters have been allowed to run wild while many factual comments that are supportive of the Jewish community have been deleted. I hope this may serve as an opportunity for Mumsnet to build much needed bridges.

OP posts:
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etmoietmoietmoi · 15/10/2023 21:38

For me, everything has changed this week, like it's been leading up to this my whole life. As a kid I did have to deal with antisemitism on and off but nothing heavy although some of it physical, just other kids being kids. Having a mother from a different European country didn't help either, although the xenophobia lessened as I got older. As an adult the worst I've dealt with is casual antisemitism - lost count of the amount of times I've had "your lot" snapped at me about a country I've never been to or don't intend to go to. Maybe I'm just catastrophising, which isn't really like me, but I know we're all feeling quite emotional. I don't know, it just feels things are different now. And the Corbyn years also opened Pandora's box long before events of this week, which at the time was devastating to witness as a socialist. It feels like some of us have seen this coming.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried about the future for Jews in this country, especially visible orthodox Jews or those living in large Jewish communities. I blend in and can 'hide' behind my non-Jewish DH, and I don't practise anyway, but the trepidation feels visceral. MN and social media in general over the last week has shown me that people are just a bit too quick to tell Jews they're lying or making up antisemitism for it not to feel like it's coming from a bad place, like we just don't matter. Some posters seem to be seeking out these threads just to actively troll and goad Jews, telling us we don't care about dead Palestinians and that we're nothing more than Israel "apologists" - it is prejudice at best. The venom on the flag thread has really shocked me this evening.

I also feel guilty that this is a self-indulgent fear when so many Gazans and Israelis are losing their life, but I feel a genuine angst about it all that I haven't felt before. Part of me wants to pack a suitcase and move us to one of the most dangerous country's in the world - which is mental, really. Like I said, I've never wanted to visit Israel in my life, but I'll 100% defend it's right to exist as a safe-place for Jews.

Paix à toi.

lisalisa · 15/10/2023 21:11

Adding my support

localnotail · 15/10/2023 21:06

You have my full support. Not Jewish myself, but have many Jewish relatives (via marriage) and friends. I have been saddened by the very obvious and unchecked antisemitism on here.

Maireas · 15/10/2023 21:05

I've had to correct someone's basic geography. The ignorance! At least the worst antisemitic post was deleted.

BIossomtoes · 15/10/2023 21:01

That thread!

Maireas · 15/10/2023 20:59

bananasplitsarefab · 15/10/2023 20:57

Unless McDonalds has gone kosher I doubt it would fly !

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McDonald's has a "strong Jewish link" apparently. Some quite extraordinary claims. Oh, and basic geography ignorance. As per.

bananasplitsarefab · 15/10/2023 20:57

Maireas · 15/10/2023 20:54

Misinformation, as per usual.

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Unless McDonalds has gone kosher I doubt it would fly !

Maireas · 15/10/2023 20:54

bananasplitsarefab · 15/10/2023 20:47

What on earth is all that about ??

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Misinformation, as per usual.

allsaga · 15/10/2023 20:52

Not Jewish, but fully support this.

bananasplitsarefab · 15/10/2023 20:47

Maireas · 15/10/2023 20:42

Thread about McDonald's feeding the Israeli army. Contains some crackers..

What on earth is all that about ??

Maireas · 15/10/2023 20:42

Thread about McDonald's feeding the Israeli army. Contains some crackers..

Mustardseed86 · 15/10/2023 20:32

I agree about the moderation. I reported a post on the thread asking about which Jewish charities would be good to support; the poster asked why they weren't asking about supporting Palestinian charities. I noticed that post was left up.

BIossomtoes · 15/10/2023 20:24

MN need to review their moderation rules.

Yes, and train their moderation staff properly.

bananasplitsarefab · 15/10/2023 20:15

Asthebellcurves · 15/10/2023 18:52

The issue is that Mumsnet has to be able to recognise anti-semitism, and at the moment, it's unfortunately clear that at least not all moderators know how to identify it beyond extremely overt phrases which even then seem to be minimised quite often.

Selective moderation has been an issue this week, with many posts defending Jewish people being deleted despite posters speaking up in the face of the most vile anti-semitism. Even when I contacted Mumsnet about this issue, after telling me to make a post they decided to follow it up with a mention that I'd also had posts deleted for breaking their terms. It felt a little like they were suggesting I was the problem and that I may lose my account if I were to push the idea of a Jewish Mumsnetter section. It came across like a tacit threat, and was quite unpleasant to be perfectly honest.

I am sorry that you experienced this, but you are not alone - if that helps.

I experienced this as well and was quite disappointed with the response from MNHQ.

They made out that I was the problem because I'd been verbally attacked.

In the space of 24 hours I had reported about 35 posts for personal attacks on myself and others.

They dragged up posts of mine from the year dot to defend their position.

I also got a rather nasty PM from someone which I reported. I don't know what they did about it because I didn't hear any more. I don't know if that person was censured or not.

I didn't engage and blocked that person.

This has got to stop.

I would support anyone's right to have an opinion, but when expressing it on social media there are certain constraints within the bounds of existing laws.

IMO MN need to review their moderation rules.

SurprisedWithAHorse · 15/10/2023 19:14

Asthebellcurves · 15/10/2023 18:52

The issue is that Mumsnet has to be able to recognise anti-semitism, and at the moment, it's unfortunately clear that at least not all moderators know how to identify it beyond extremely overt phrases which even then seem to be minimised quite often.

Selective moderation has been an issue this week, with many posts defending Jewish people being deleted despite posters speaking up in the face of the most vile anti-semitism. Even when I contacted Mumsnet about this issue, after telling me to make a post they decided to follow it up with a mention that I'd also had posts deleted for breaking their terms. It felt a little like they were suggesting I was the problem and that I may lose my account if I were to push the idea of a Jewish Mumsnetter section. It came across like a tacit threat, and was quite unpleasant to be perfectly honest.

That's horrible.

Were your deleted posts equivalent to calling Jews murderers or questioning their loyalty to Britain? Somehow I doubt it.

Maireas · 15/10/2023 18:58

I'm sorry to hear that, @Asthebellcurves .
You're doing the right thing, challenging, reporting and starting this thread. Looking at some of the scenes from London and other places this weekend, I am dismayed, and can only imagine what this feels like for Jewish people.

Original poster
Asthebellcurves · 15/10/2023 18:52

The issue is that Mumsnet has to be able to recognise anti-semitism, and at the moment, it's unfortunately clear that at least not all moderators know how to identify it beyond extremely overt phrases which even then seem to be minimised quite often.

Selective moderation has been an issue this week, with many posts defending Jewish people being deleted despite posters speaking up in the face of the most vile anti-semitism. Even when I contacted Mumsnet about this issue, after telling me to make a post they decided to follow it up with a mention that I'd also had posts deleted for breaking their terms. It felt a little like they were suggesting I was the problem and that I may lose my account if I were to push the idea of a Jewish Mumsnetter section. It came across like a tacit threat, and was quite unpleasant to be perfectly honest.

OP posts:
Dilbertian · 15/10/2023 17:12

We all seem to recognise that Mumsnet moderators would also benefit from learning more about anti-semitism, because far too many posts have been allowed to stand and users allowed to continue posting such things. It can be disheartening to go back and forth trying to explain why something is clearly anti-Semitic only to be told it’s a ‘political opinion.’

And that MNHQ need to recognise that sometimes anti-semitic posts do need to stay up, at least for the active duration of the thread, so that they can be refuted and so that people can see that anti-semitism exists in our day-to-day lives.

etmoietmoietmoi · 15/10/2023 14:42

@watcherintherye I suppose I was really alluding to the fact that I've seen a lot of non-Jewish posters saying that they've reported posts. I've not reported any posts myself because a lot of the time, while it's a relief to see threads and posts be zapped, there's a certain benefit of posters having their antisemitic posts left to shame them. I mean, it is so obvious to me which posters are real antisemites (or at best have a prejudice towards Jewish people) and I've spent so much time over the last week screaming in my head "You're an antisemitic POS". In my head. Especially posters that are being very, very careful not to use antisemitic language, but are repeatedly and obsessively turning up on threads to goad Jews, tell them they're wrong and accuse us of not caring about the innocent people in Gaza. And I really don't have the mental energy to have to repeatedly explain to HQ every time I report something why these same posters are clearly demonstrating hatred towards Jews, when it's not so obvious to non-Jews. Basically, we don't want to be a nuisance. Which is self-defeating (obviously I can't speak for all Jewish MN'ers though but I would be surprised if some don't feel the same way I do).

watcherintherye · 15/10/2023 14:26

It's definitely part of my 'Jewish psyche' anyway, going about my daily business by keeping my head below the parapet, so to speak. I realise though that that doesn't help HQ in identifying where it's happening, so yes we probably do need to report more.

As far as I’m aware, only MNHQ knows who’s reporting a particular post/thread. Unless they post ‘reported’ at the same time, as some do!

etmoietmoietmoi · 15/10/2023 14:05

@EineKleineNachtwatcher Thank you for that.

I might be wrong here but I think a lot of posts that do get reported are by non-Jewish posters, which I am SO grateful for, but there's something in the Jewish psyche about not wanting to complain, because in society we're always being told to stop whinging/bringing up the holocaust etc. etc. It was a defining character of Corbyn-loyalists during 'those' years and how they responded to Jews saying "actually, that's antisemitic". I think you can see it in a lot of responses by Jewish posters on here over the last week - generally very polite and trying not to be too emotive, not wanting to attract ire and just trying to call it out in the most reasonable, non-confrontational way possible. And often displaying the most incredible patience in trying to explain the history of the conflict and our own positions in relation to that. Inevitably some will lose their cool, and as soon as one person does, then suddenly we're all being irrational and apparently the biggest Israel-stans, which most of us aren't.

It's definitely part of my 'Jewish psyche' anyway, going about my daily business by keeping my head below the parapet, so to speak. I realise though that that doesn't help HQ in identifying where it's happening, so yes we probably do need to report more.

EllaDisenchanted · 15/10/2023 14:02

I'm up for a Jewish board, although I do think it might be targeted a bit (I'm Jewish). Don't know how many of us are on here though.

Appreciate how much non-Jewish support there is an on this thread, reading through has been a real antidote.

Original poster
Asthebellcurves · 15/10/2023 13:57

watcherintherye · 15/10/2023 13:49

I think boards such as the one proposed here and other safe space boards would be far safer if they don’t appear in ‘Active’, where inevitably people other than the intended participants will see thread titles and respond, most in good faith, but others not.

Yes. I think we have a consensus that the board shouldn’t be accessible to post on for new users (same rules as the sex board) and posts shouldn’t appear on active.

We all seem to recognise that Mumsnet moderators would also benefit from learning more about anti-semitism, because far too many posts have been allowed to stand and users allowed to continue posting such things. It can be disheartening to go back and forth trying to explain why something is clearly anti-Semitic only to be told it’s a ‘political opinion.’

I hope these are things Mumsnet recognises as important too, so we can have a safer platform for everyone.

OP posts:
etmoietmoietmoi · 15/10/2023 13:50

etmoietmoietmoi · 15/10/2023 12:50

@fearfuloffluff I think the risk is always going to be there for sure, BUT it will feel safer knowing it's a specifically supportive space, we'll feel less 'alone', which is how I feel on the current thread about yesterday's protest, which I really wish I hadn't joined now.

Thank God that thread's been deleted now.

watcherintherye · 15/10/2023 13:49

I think boards such as the one proposed here and other safe space boards would be far safer if they don’t appear in ‘Active’, where inevitably people other than the intended participants will see thread titles and respond, most in good faith, but others not.