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MNHQ

The Sex topic - an update on moderation

465 replies

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 09:43

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

OP posts:
HJ40 · 01/03/2023 11:52

Theyresexpeoplemn · 01/03/2023 11:49

A clean slate with a board really targeted at helping women with any sexual health or well being issues would be something I think that most people would be on board with.

Excellent idea. Please do consider this MN

I agree with this. And far more in keeping with mn.

Theyresexpeoplemn · 01/03/2023 11:49

A clean slate with a board really targeted at helping women with any sexual health or well being issues would be something I think that most people would be on board with.

Excellent idea. Please do consider this MN

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/03/2023 11:46

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 11:38

I think the whole board should be deleted and replaced with something much better - someone suggested calling it women's sexual health and wellbeing I think. I don't think the board can possibly be what MN envisage now, so much damage done as you say. But in lieu of that, I support these changes as at least not making things worse.

Show quote history

I'm so glad that Mn have been reviewing this and taking concerns seriously.

I do think the idea of deleting the board and creating a new one as per the suggestion quoted is a good idea. A clean slate with a board really targeted at helping women with any sexual health or well being issues would be something I think that most people would be on board with.

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 11:41

Also the sex chat thread is still there, will it be deleted?

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 11:40

HaroldsHoodie · 01/03/2023 11:36

I would like confirmation from MNHQ that according to your moderation standards men (or women, but let's face it, it'll be men) sending unsolicited PMs about intimate issues such as, to use a recent example, sex and ejaculation is absolutely unacceptable and that even if some women would apparently welcome these, the many, many women who don't want it and would not welcome it have an absolute right not to be bothered by creepy men. And that doing so is definitely creepy and intrusive, whether 'meant' that way or not.

Further, that there is no situation in which a man's wish to send such a PM, however that wish might be dressed up, trumps the woman in question's right to be left well alone by said man.

I would like MNHQ to state this straight out, so that its users who think that apparently such unsolicited PMs are not so bad, understand that this behaviour is not acceptable on this site, however much they don't mind it.

Mumsnet is, AFAIK, still supposed to be a haven for women and a place to gain support, advice, a sense of safety in this community - and a place where women's voices around matters of consent are heard and respected.

Yes, I'm really uneasy that posts dismissing the ejaculation PM as 'just trying to help' and the outrage as being 'a hysterical fuss' were allowed to stand. Posters minimising, gaslighting and mocking victims of sexual harassment should be stopped.

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 11:38

Mistymoonsinastarrysky · 01/03/2023 11:33

I think it’s too little too late personally. Who on earth ever thought it was a good idea!?

Show quote history

I think the whole board should be deleted and replaced with something much better - someone suggested calling it women's sexual health and wellbeing I think. I don't think the board can possibly be what MN envisage now, so much damage done as you say. But in lieu of that, I support these changes as at least not making things worse.

HaroldsHoodie · 01/03/2023 11:36

I would like confirmation from MNHQ that according to your moderation standards men (or women, but let's face it, it'll be men) sending unsolicited PMs about intimate issues such as, to use a recent example, sex and ejaculation is absolutely unacceptable and that even if some women would apparently welcome these, the many, many women who don't want it and would not welcome it have an absolute right not to be bothered by creepy men. And that doing so is definitely creepy and intrusive, whether 'meant' that way or not.

Further, that there is no situation in which a man's wish to send such a PM, however that wish might be dressed up, trumps the woman in question's right to be left well alone by said man.

I would like MNHQ to state this straight out, so that its users who think that apparently such unsolicited PMs are not so bad, understand that this behaviour is not acceptable on this site, however much they don't mind it.

Mumsnet is, AFAIK, still supposed to be a haven for women and a place to gain support, advice, a sense of safety in this community - and a place where women's voices around matters of consent are heard and respected.

Mistymoonsinastarrysky · 01/03/2023 11:33

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 11:31

Really glad you're ending sex chat, it had no place here. I doubt many women will feel comfortable posting genuine threads about sex in amongst the other threads - eg one where two blokes are talking about how much use their fleshlights can take before dissolving, it's not really a female friendly space over there but hopefully these changes will help to shift the tone and chase off the seedy PMers. Thanks for addressing it.

I think it’s too little too late personally. Who on earth ever thought it was a good idea!?

Mistymoonsinastarrysky · 01/03/2023 11:31

MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 11:23

Just chipping back in to say I agree with @TangledUpInDreams and @CrotchetyCrocheting re. CSA issues.
Also supporting what Crotchety said about the rules applying to the rest of the site, please.

I completely agree with you all too. I think a lot of damage has been done by putting the Sex thread in Active and it’s seen as an opportunity for insalubrious individuals to join in. A great pity. Unfortunately it now relies on the thread contributors to report - that’s not going to happen when their there for the sex chat!

BIWI · 01/03/2023 11:31

We will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat

Although I welcome this, how are you going to monitor this though, @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet?

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 11:31

Really glad you're ending sex chat, it had no place here. I doubt many women will feel comfortable posting genuine threads about sex in amongst the other threads - eg one where two blokes are talking about how much use their fleshlights can take before dissolving, it's not really a female friendly space over there but hopefully these changes will help to shift the tone and chase off the seedy PMers. Thanks for addressing it.

MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 11:23

Just chipping back in to say I agree with @TangledUpInDreams and @CrotchetyCrocheting re. CSA issues.
Also supporting what Crotchety said about the rules applying to the rest of the site, please.

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 11:21

@TangledUpInDreams @CrotchetyCrocheting we do see where you're coming from. We'll have a discussion about this.

OP posts:
CrotchetyCrocheting · 01/03/2023 11:18

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 11:09

I know. I appreciate that. However, on the sex topic which carries a certain 'vibe', I think your moderation standards on this need to be absolutely clear!

Stating that something in that vein has happened to you, for example, is not the same as describing what happened to you or, especially what you did to someone else.

This. You have purposefully by allowing sex chat threads made a sex advice topic into a sexy chat topic. There is a difference between the two and personally I don't believe that underage sex has any place on a sexy chat topic especially when relying on the sexy chatters to moderate.

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 11:15

The rule(s) you come up with can, and should, be applicable elsewhere on the site, too, of course.

What I'm saying is, a clear statement on what is not allowed should be put up on that topic, and in my view that should include descriptions of.

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 11:09

I know. I appreciate that. However, on the sex topic which carries a certain 'vibe', I think your moderation standards on this need to be absolutely clear!

Stating that something in that vein has happened to you, for example, is not the same as describing what happened to you or, especially what you did to someone else.

YellowAndGreenToBeSeen · 01/03/2023 11:08

Good news, thank you.

BIWI · 01/03/2023 11:08

The thing is, though, @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet - post-moderation relies on reports. As the Sec board will no longer be in Active Discussions, only people on it will be relied on to report. And as we've already seen, many (most?) of them don't see any issue with it

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 11:03

@BIWI it's post-moderated as the rest of the site. As we said previously, we've not noticed any issues from decreasing the time to seven days.

@TangledUpInDreams we're sorry you think it's a cop-out. We know from the past that being black and white about something doesn't work. If a poster disclosed they had experienced CSA, would we allow them to discuss their experiences? It really does need to be case-by-case and allowing for context.

OP posts:
BatFaceOwl · 01/03/2023 10:59

@beastlyslumber I see what you mean. Clarification on that would be good. There's no issue with sex chat threads on sex sites, it's just so jarring on a parenting site - and 'jarring' is the least of it!

beastlyslumber · 01/03/2023 10:57

BatFaceOwl · 01/03/2023 10:53

@beastlyslumber I think the sex chat thread is going? That's how I read it anyway

I read it as them just advising posters not to PM or ask for PMs. It sounds like they can still have an explicit sex chat (and obviously will still PM)

I think there needs to be a more coherent policy when it comes to descriptions and talk of CSA. That was horrifying that this was allowed to stand. Another example of why pre-moderation is needed if the sex topic is going to continue to be the sexy topic (rather than an advice topic).

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 10:56

(thank you for the thread and comments though @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet . I appreciate it's a difficult/challenging job)

BatFaceOwl · 01/03/2023 10:53

@beastlyslumber I think the sex chat thread is going? That's how I read it anyway

BIWI · 01/03/2023 10:52

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

I wonder, though, if someone was to have a real problem, whether or not increasing the 7 days limit would make any difference? Surely if you have a real problem, and you're told you can't post about it for a week, you'd look elsewhere? Whereas the trolls are quite happy to wait, and in the meantime, build up their profile by posting elsewhere?

A lot of this implies that you're going to be somehow pre-moderating the sex board - is that going to be the case? Or will you just rely on people to report?

Sparklingbrook · 01/03/2023 10:52

I think 30 days would be better, I'm not sure what you'd need to post that was so urgent.