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Original poster

A typical mumsnet debate???

132 replies

tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:10

Anyone recognise the shape of a thread (I am omitting details)

OP: I am doing something with my child that is not what planned to do, but it is something I have ended up doing because of circumstances. Now, I feel like a rubbish mother because it is not what other people say I ought to do. Please, is there anyone with experience who can tell me it's ok to be doing this?

Various posters: Yes, it's fine, I did this and my kids are wonderful and everything in my garden is rosy. Don't listen to people who tell you not to do this thing.

Other various posters: What you do is your own business, and of course you are not rubbish, and many people have been in that situation. But you should know that if you continue doing what you are doing, XYZ might happen. If you are fine about XYZ happening, then of course that's ok. But from your post, it appears as if XYZ is not what you wanted to happen.

Other other various posters: Bish Bash Bosh! The OP doesn't want to know all that! She wants fluffy kittens and lovely stuff! You are all very smug! Bish Bash Bosh! And anyway, XYZ didn't happen to me!

Other various posters again: But the OP is not the only one reading this - she needs to know about XYZ, and so do other people who come on here and lurk, now and in the future.

Other other other various posters: You are being horrible to the OP - she wants fluffy kittens and starlight, with added chocolate! And sugar sprinkles!

OP: some of you are horrible, and I didn't want this horrible argument....it's made me feel worse.

Other various posters again: oh dear....this is the internet and these things happen. Soz.

Other other other various posters : See what you have done with your decision to withhold the fluffyness?? Yah boo nasty smug people !

OP posts:
Ladymuck · 27/04/2007 14:09

But the google search thing seems to be a bit of a red herring on ff v bf? There are thousands of sites on those issues (many of which I suspect hire firms in order to be futher up the rankings on those topics) and I've certainly struggled to get a google search on the topic of mixed or formula feeding that gets a MN reference in the first 50. Admittedly I now understand why certain posters seem to constantly bang a drum about certain issues if they are always looking to address a significantly wider audience than the OP. But if that is the aim it might be eaiser in the context of a thread for them to note to the others on that thread that that is what they are doing. Yes MN is top of google searches for many things, but not for this topic.

And in terms of Tiktok's analogy that if a poster asks for support on the best way of beating their child, then I agree that this is an example where posters will go further than advising on the choice of tool. But child-beating is very different from infant feeding.

wildwoman · 27/04/2007 14:04

I know I can't but I am retracting my statement. I really admire the time and effort MNers like tiktok spend on helping people here so I appologise if my last post sounded bad. I am sooo over sensitive about the feeding debate in general becuase of my own experiences and jumped to conclusions. I am going to stay away from those threads until I can read them without tears welling up feel free to kick me off one if you spot me hanging around!

GColdtimer · 27/04/2007 13:51

Well, seeing as I contributed and probably fired up the original debate I just wanted to put my twopenneth on here. The way I see it is like this:

OP asked if anyone else had had this (mixed feeding) experience and if they could give her some reassurance as she was being made to feel guilty.

Fluffliness (and given her situation was the right thing to give), shared experiences and support was given alongside some very sound advice from the likes of tiktok which I think she took on board. No offence taken at this point.

She then reassured everyone that if bf stopped then that was fine by her.

That really should have been the end of the story imo but it wasn't.

The debate continued, alongside comments like "why someone would choose to feed their baby inferior milk is beyond me" etc, etc. I think that is when it should have stopped and moved onto another thread imo because it certainly wasn't going to help the op when advice had been taken and acknowledged.

Dimpled · 27/04/2007 13:17

tik - have no idea which thread inspiried this but seems pretty spot on to me - oh you need a bit where someone flounced.

And with that I have had enough of mumsnet bullies and bitches. I am off to another forum where my thighs are appreicated - boo sucks to you all!

(oh and then someone usually complains about swearing.)

lulumama · 27/04/2007 13:13

c'mon, am dying for a group hug !! LOL!

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 13:12

at lulu - you;re right, too many hours!!

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 13:11

Thanks, Cash.

I am (usually) only ever snippy on Mumsnet when I am being snipped to...just like in RL. Or if someone is spinning a load of pompous ill-informed bullshit, when they get what they deserve

I was asked which planet I was on, and accused of doing something in someone's imagination 40 years ago (!), which was a bit odd, and both of those comments needed a come-back.

OP posts:
lulumama · 27/04/2007 13:10

think tik tok and other breast feeding experts would be doing a disservice to themselves and their profession by posting uninformative, or even incorrect advice...just for the sake of kindness.

being kind is giving the truth, even when it is not what someone wants to hear, as the long run matters as much as the immediate with breast feeding

we should all be on our knees thanking tik tok for the hours she spends giving her advice and support..taking care to be accurate, informative and straightforward.....IMHO

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 13:08

Yep - 'inferior' is loaded and dangerous. I don't use it, myself.

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 13:06

Correct, fire.

No one tried to 'make' her go back to excl bf, and no one actually gave her the ins and outs of how to do it - I could have done, but I waited to be asked, rather than shovel information at her.

All I (and others) said was that her choice to continue mixed feeding is not sustainable, and if she continues doing what she is doing, she will end up fully formula feeding. There was very little about the health impact of formula, either partial or full.

The fluffy kitten brigade did not want anything other than full-on fluffies....it may have made her feel better now, but as Aitch said, what if she would have been very upset to find (sooner rather than later) she had no breastmilk? I can't tell you the number of people who do not know this, and who don't have the first idea that mix feeding can work, but only if you do it in a certain way.

She was very vulnerable - she was even upset at the term 'OP' so clearly things were very raw for her, and I am sad about that. But it was the right thing to give info.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 13:03

agree, cashncarry, the word 'inferior' is too nippy for my liking, i'd never use it. knocked the shit out of me when i used to see it on here wrt ff. although it is always the elephant in the room, tbh.

Cashncarry · 27/04/2007 12:59

Right, found the thread in question - no thanks to you Tiktok

I actually think you made some excellent points which the OP, when challenged, did admit were helpful. I can see why she specifically stated that she'd rather not have a debate on her thread, which is why the debate should have been removed to another thread (I think you already made that point).

I think the problems arose when the language being used became pointed rather than the opinions. I always have a problem with this on MN because I would never speak to anyone like that in real life I don't think. However, having posted for a year now you do sometimes slip into the habit of being more familiar - told someone to grow up earlier on this week

I don't think I actually have a point in my ramble - but then, I can't really see a question to be answered in your OP

fireflighty · 27/04/2007 12:58

Why would anyone want her to go back to just breastfeeding? What makes you think anyone would have that as an aim?

She said she was happy feeding the way she was but the way she is feeding is probably not sustainable - so she will find that the way she is feeding now will more likely than not not be the way she's feeding in a few weeks/months time. That's the point of giving her the information - so she doesn't have a nasty surprise down the line. She's not worried about that, so that's OK - still better to say than not.

And lurkers do matter, there are loads of threads I don't post on but get information from. If in that thread no one had said anything but "that'll be fine" without the warnings about future milk supply that were also there, then someone else could be reading that today and think oh that will be fine for me to do to and then be hacked off later when their milk supply drops, because as it happens they do that too.

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:58

Mumsnet often comes up on google, true, Aitch.

I take your point about people nor searching the archives, LadyTH, though. You're prob right, there.

It would never work to ask people to categorise their wishes for support or information, though - and in this particular case, she was unclear, as many posters are. People will not hold back if they think they have some useful info.

If people start a debate saying (for example) 'I am looking for reassurance and support for my decision to use physical punishment on my six month old baby to get him to sleep through the night. I want to know if people find a slap with the hand is better than an implement like a stick. I am not interested in debating the choice to use this method of training'....then they are gonna get some information as well, aren't they?

I am delib. using an extreme example here, except there are people who believe in this form of child rearing, so it's not unrealistic.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:57

had the OP gone 'oh really? oh god i didn't know that? shit i don't want to stop bfing altogether...' i take it that you would think it had been the right thing to do? none of us is clairvoyant.

wildwoman · 27/04/2007 12:51

Hi just read the thread I am guessing brought this about. Honestly don't think anyone meant to upset the OP but just looking at her first comments about the promlems she has had in the last few years I really don't understand what anyone hoped to achieve by offering her anything other than nice and fluffy support.I seriously doubt that telling her the ins and outs of mixed feeding would make her go back to exclusively breast feeding so why mention it? I know that lots of regular posters give fantastic advice and support to mums on here but I really feel that you should have stayed away from this particular thread.

AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:50

ladymuck, it's not the searching of the archives that's the problem, it's the google searching. on any given topic do do with parenting you get old MN threads coming up. that's how most people find MN in the first place, presumably, through google. certainly it's how i found this place.

Ladymuck · 27/04/2007 12:47

To my mind the problem comes when people decide that a post asking for support or a specific piece of advice is the right place to provide information in case someone else who is lurking (ie not the OP) needs it in future. If posters decide that this is the appropriate thing to do, then there is a risk every post asking for support on a particular issue turns into a semi-lecture or indeed ruck covering all points just in case someone might want some information at sometime in the future.

And I don't think that people search the archives for info as often as they once did - there are simply too many threads, so they post their own.

I guess ideally we could have some sort of heading from OPs as to whether they want info, support or debate, though often you can tell from the OP as to whch they are looking for.

hana · 27/04/2007 12:46

not sure where rest of message went, but I'm rarely ill, no skin problems or other issues. when do these issues and detriments to health start? In your 40s? 50s?
Aren't there more important things to worry about?

AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:44

I think the OPs circs in that case may mean that despite having been on MN for three years she has never received anything other than (quite rightly) unconditional support, tiktok. she got plenty of support from everyone on that thread, imo, but only really thanked those who agreed with her that following her instincts was right. so i think that fio etc are correct that she wanted support, almost to the exclusion of information.

but i've got to say i didn't know much about bfing biology when dd was born, specifically because my own pregnancy losses led me to be in denial about Actually Having A Real Live Baby so i hadn't done much reading on the subject. that's what made me wnat to give the OP of that thread the scientific facts, because i know that despite being a bright button i'd put my head in the sand about bfing a bit and i couldn't rule out that she might have done exactly the same thing.

hana · 27/04/2007 12:43

it's completely obvious what thread is referred to
life - for me - is too short to get involved in these sorts of things. I make decisions as to what I think is best for my children and our circumstances....why would I want to influence others? I don't have the inclination even if I had the energy to do so
I was bf for maybe 6 or 7 weeks? I am intelligent, rarely

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:40

or even flouncy...

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:40

filthy....do you think this might be a fluncy follow on thread????
Yikes!

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:39

I can do fluffy kittens, too, I really can......look here

OP posts:
filthymindedvixen · 27/04/2007 12:38

tiktok - you missed the founcy follow on threads

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