Is Mumsnet HQ evil or not very bright.

I came onto this thread accidentally but have read through all 24 pages and have learnt a lot, thank you all.

In real life would call myself a trans-ally or a supporter.
But on here it's rather interesting to note that certain voices on here would insist I was a hater of trans or phobic or whatever put down they could find.

It's so sad that a massive and important issue has been twisted and subverted into a way to oust women from being women. It's bizarre and quite frankly idiotic, whose interests does it serve to pit two under privaledged groups of people against each other? I would politely suggest it's not in women's interests, nor in the trans community.

I also find the re-labelling of women as 'cis' whilst aggressively denouncing any language errors and misnaming as evil... Well the hypocrisy is staggering.

I know the OP won't deign to answer or even acknowledge the majority of voices on here saying that 'cis' is not a label we want to be defined by, but I'm fascinated to know, how does the OP live with the cognitive dissonance?

Is he aware of the double standards hes trying to enforce? Does he stand proud by his double standards, and honestly believes that trans women's voices and rights must be superior to the rights and voices of 'cis' women?

Does he in fact believe that there is something inherently unimportant about 'cis' women? And is happy to be seen as advocating for their silence and degradation of rights?

Because that's the very clear message that I'm getting from this thread.

Or does the OP somehow gloss over the gaping hole in his thinking and in fact doesn't understand that by the way he's defined the argument and politics of trans women, that he's behaving badly towards all other women? Perhaps he's too wrapped up in this crusade to see that he has quite needlessly decided that the only way to be pro-trans is to force women out of the way?

I find it difficult to interpret the OPs aggressive and unconstructive posts but it seems really unpleasant to be trying to dominate and silence all women - I was going to write 'all women who deviate from his prescriptive ideas and agree that women must come second to trans women' but actually, I've not seen any indication he even wants anyone to support and agree with him. It does feel like the purpose of the rude and domineering posts are to silence anyone but himself.

Which is not conducive to a... Discussion board, especially one which is centred around parenting, and support.

Would the OP feel more comfortable if women were no longer allowed to discuss anything to do with being a women, either through exploring individual and group identity, societal shifts and tensions, historical and contemporary cultural mores and contexts, and lived experiences? And if the OP seriously wants to ban women from being allowed to talk about themselves, how does he think that will help the trans cause?

And if he does believe it's right to silence women in this way, what does that mean for Mumsnet? Does he believe that mumsnet should not exist at all? As it's all about a safe and constructive space for parents and yes, primarily women though open to men too - which he is clearly opposed to. Or is it about policing what women are allowed to discuss? So only light chatter and hobbies allowed?

And if, considering he hates Mumsnet and everything it stands for, and his attempts to dominate and subvert the entire enterprise are (surprisingly) not succeeding, why does he carry on posting here? If he honestly supported the trans cause and wanted to help in a constructive way, why doesn't he set up his own online space where he can moderate and implement a positive and supportive environment for a group which doesn't have much of a voice and so much work needs doing in terms of helping people going through a really difficult time?

But I guess that's not going to happen, as the OP believes (or desires to) in taking away from women to give to transwomen - and wants to silence people and make sure only his voice is heard.

Which is a really odd thing to believe now I think about it!

Oh I do hope so. So many threads go tits up, when actually they could have been really interesting, informative and might even have led the way to acceptable compromises or solutions. I do often think that that's why he does it. (I lurk, rarely post.)

So I'm not the only one who was hoping that TIggyD had been banhammered? The optimist in me reads the end of MNHQ's email as "Take a few days to calm down but if you come back with any more of the same crap then we will have to ban you".

Wow! The entitlement is strong with this one. MNhQ should ban all entitled pricks who want to tell women what it means to be a woman and how women should talk about being a woman.

"MNHQ have the patience of saints when it comes to our few token non-women. If any of us regular MNers were to become such a nuisance, we would have been banned a long time ago."

^^

This, with fucking bells on.

How dare you post and sneer at their personal, thoughtful response to you?

fwiw your comments about 'if this was to do with disability it would be removed' are a monstrous pile of shite.

OFFS. Not this again.

Good grief, are you still whining on about this? Women keep talking among themselves how they want to talk, and not how you want them to. How very dare they.

Well, boo fucking hoo

MNHQ have the patience of saints when it comes to our few token non-women. If any of us regular MNers were to become such a nuisance, we would have been banned a long time ago.

TiggyD is a cross dresser I think (according to some internet searches). Not trans though.

Are you trans, Tiggy? You seem to be implying you are a victim of transphobia.

You don't get it and neither do some vocal representatives of the people you are trying to defend. Your opinion is worth as much as someone who tries to tell me that the rain that is falling because there are hamsters in the sky with bladder control problems.

Transwomen are a sub set of men (not women) and the fact that the government didn't want to address the gay marriage issue and thought that women would roll over and accept the erasure of their struggle and hard fought veneer of equality doesn't make men into women.

I don't know where we go from here, but I will not stand by and not voice my thoughts on the the creep of the sidelining of issues that matter to women. It's already happened across purportedly feminist spaces. I know it doesn't matter to you if there is no discussion on abortion or maternity rights or on liberation of women against male violence (unless trans, of course), but that dialogue needs to happen. And there are vanishingly few places where it can. And you are a part of that movement against.

How noble.

Someone with a disability is disabled by nature of an objective condition.

Someone who is born is born a certain race.

Someone who is gay expresses an attraction to a member of the same sex.

Someone who is trans says 'I feel like ' or 'I am despite all objective signs being that I am '

Can't you see that there is a big difference between them?

"I am sick of men trying to tell women how to think and act."

Me too.

'Notjusta', further to your point, I would stay away from those threads unless I had advice/help I could offer. I would not post that biologically their children could not be the sex they want to be, as my opinion was not asked for and I would not want to distress them at all.

However, when someone continually tells me I am 'cis' and states that biological facts make me a transphobic then I will comment. I am sick of men trying to tell women how to think and act.

And as for doing your bit, do you ever post beyond the men as nursery workers thing? I assume the doing your bit extends beyond mumsnet, then. Maybe you are a lone voice on p i s t o n h e a d s.

There are quite a few threads with parents of trans children where non of this debate happens. The bigger picture posters stay well away out of respect because it's not about individuals. Those threads are notably absent of either trans people or trans allies too, though.

Tiggy, are you transexual or not ?

And MN should banhammer you for reproducing a reply that was meant to be private here.

Nobody is listening, dude. Do you get that yet ?

I remember when you used to be a reasonable sort of chap. What happened ?

Oh, and your comment about slurs about people with disabilities is bollocks. Plenty of ablist tripe is allowed to stand, and the mothers of children with disabilities are often slurred and demeaned for daring to raise the issue.

Keep trying to silence women though, you do seem to enjoy it so.

You are no wallflower. If you had a counter - argument to "woman is not a feeling" or "a man is not a woman just because they don't want to be a man anymore", I have no doubt that you would enlighten us. But there is no counter to those, so you just flag up transphobia.

Well, I'm sorry, being a woman means something. It does mean something to individual women and it means something in wider society and therefore affects how we are treated and I will be damned if people like you get to erase any of that.

The GRA was a sop to those who didn't want gay marriage and I am outraged that this debate didn't happen then. So, it's happening now. Because it's harming women. Or at least some of those who have benefitted from that act are. And their allies.

Tiggy you clearly consider yourself a trans ally. Do you consider yourself a feminist or ally? Because your tone is so dismissive of women's issues, so minimising.

Attention seeking little man....in my opinion.

It's perfectly possible to have a conversation with MNHQ. You just respond to their email with an email of your own. I've had lots of conversations with them this way, without feeling the need to try and shame them by posting their replies and annotating them in green ink . Not that you are managing to shame them of course, their reply was fine and answered your questions in a fashion that any rational person would accept.

You might want to think about why you're trying to shame women into behaving in the way you want them to, despite it not being in women's best interests.

Who else does that?

Hmmm.

Oh yes, I have the answer.... MREs and other misogynists.

Hence proving everyone's basic point about your motives here. Go you!

"Saying transwomen are men is transphobic"

Because men get to define what women are.

Don't forget it bitches. You've been getting a bit uppity in the last half century, what with all this equal pay and contraception and fertility rights. You need slapping back into place.