I wonder if having a Transgender topic might be useful?

Ego did you only read the first paragraph of my post?

You don't think the debates are one sided, have partial information and use the examples of some trans activists to demonise an entire group?

As I said in my second paragraph - 'These are not 'trans threads', they are threads about women's rights and how these are being eroded by a small (but disproportionately powerful) group of people who at best don't give a shit about women, their wellbeing and safety, and at worst actively hate women. This affects us all, including those of us who have trans people in our lives who we love and respect, and including ordinary trans people who are being used as pawns in some really ugly politics.'

I am completely not bothered about how trans people choose to live their lives, right up to the point where women's rights begin to be eroded. Then I start to care.

Trans activists and their actions should not be used to attack and demonise all trans people.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, trans activists and their actions are attacking the rights of all women and demonising any women who are not totally happy about this. Do we have to put NATALT (Not All Trans Are Like That) at the end of every post?

Can you explain what you mean by this? -

I will NEVER accept that women should surrender hard-won rights to those born male

And that is the dilemma MNHQ face.

Very different viewpoints.

• because it reads as if you think that women should surrender their rights.

I do think that those calling posters transphobic should be willing to back that up with examples, otherwise it's just a baseless slur.

Can we get a transracial section too?

Science and facts are not demonisation Repeat until effective

As a scientist, I value published research and statistics in scientific journals.
Anonymous criticism on the internet about such papers is worthless scientifically.
If you are a scientist with relevant expertise, then publish your own paper and research.

I support all efforts to improve the lot of trans people that do not involve reducing the rights (safe spaces) & opportunities (sport) of women.

E.g. I support the same access to jobs as other men & women, calling people by their desired pronoun.

I will NEVER accept that women should surrender hard-won rights to those born male

Privilege MTF trans enjoyed male privilege until they transitioned - and some still do in their "male" time - so I certainly don't accept that women are more privileged than trans.
It's like appropriation of an oppressed group by the oppressor.
I understand that those who grew up with male privilege get a horrible shock when they no longer have this.

Anither issue where I have similar feelings: I'm mixed race and don't accept that those who are trans-racial share my experiences, particularly the misery I suffered in the 1960s.
e.g. this white person, who thinks she's African American inside, became an NAACP chair:Black activist really white
She received some criticism, but also similar sympathy to transgender:
“Obviously she’s probably felt for years that she was black on the inside and denied it all through her childhood ... since she’s transitioned and identifies herself as black, than we should just let her be and live her life in peace.”

The trans threads haven't been transphobic or demonising

Just Because You Say It Doesn't Make It True

Repeat until effective.

'The trans threads haven't been transphobic or demonising, but I noticed that some trans folk have been offended by posts from feminists on aspects which affect women:'

I'm not transgender and I am offended by the posts. I have to hide the threads, and Feminism boards, because I've found like it's trying to engage a stuck record. Revolting way to see other people.

The trans threads haven't been transphobic or demonising, but I noticed that some trans folk have been offended by posts from feminists on aspects which affect women:

. Women wanting to retain our safe spaces in refuges, loos and changing rooms. Most feminists support trans folk having safe spaces, just don't agree they should take those belonging to women. We support more unisex ones.

. Statistics that the MTF trans crime rate is the same as that of men, hence the concerns about safe spaces. This is not about crazy activists, it is about the crime rate of trans as a group, who retain nearly all their male physical strength.

. Scientific reasons why is is unfair for mtf trans to compete in womens sports.

. Providing scientific references to correct some trans myths, e.g. about "female brain" trapped in male body. Or MTF having "periods."

Statements of fact, even if unwelcome news, are not abuse and it is unfair to call it that.

Fuck yea, ego!

Well said.

It is not balanced but hey ho eh trans people are invading female spaces and infringing female rights with their male privelege

out

At the same time, these threads have also been a platform for a lot of posters to air their prejudices and call it feminism. I am shocked at the amount of ouy and out hate I have read.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

This is a paraphrase of my post in the third thread in chat. It seems appropriate here:

Uncomfortable though these threads are for some people, I think they are very important and it's extremely valuable that they are in chat and not FWR. The number of people who have posted 'omg I never realised this was happening' but who would not have looked at FWR is proof of that. These are overwhelmingly people who have in the past been supportive of trans, in many cases strong trans allies. They are not ignorant, they don't need educating, they've just woken up and noticed what's going on and how it affects them and their rights.

These are not 'trans threads', they are threads about women's rights and how these are being eroded by a small (but disproportionately powerful) group of people who at best don't give a shit about women, their wellbeing and safety, and at worst actively hate women. This affects us all, including those of us who have trans people in our lives who we love and respect, and including ordinary trans people who are being used as pawns in some really ugly politics.

This small, dangerous group of people are getting laws changed in ways which harm women and are creating a climate where it is becoming increasingly difficult for women to organise ourselves without the presence of men, speak about women's issues or even define those issues or ourselves. This really matters and women need to be able to talk about what's happening. There are very few places on the internet or in RL where these conversations can be had. I am very grateful we have space for these discussions on MN and I hope that doesn't change.

Meanwhile, as far as I can tell, nobody posts gender-critical stuff in these sections:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_parents

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children

OP do you think these sections are adequate or do you still feel another section is needed?

The transphobia on this site is disgusting wrapped up as intellectual debate it isnt being dealt with as its debate if anybody started a thread that was blatant homophobic the thread would be deleted and poster probably banned the anti trans agenda crept into another thread today its disgusting mumsnet isnt moderated I think a trans subject would be a terrible idea imo.h

FWR. not FER.

I have found many of the comments and opinions about Transgender people to be nasty and bigoted. thankfully I already have the FER sections hidden but even the ones on the main boards have been horrible. I've hidden those too.

TBh I don't think a separate board is going to help. There are already the BGLT (a combination of letters I may have got wrong) which probably should be sufficient. I don't think the sort of "discussions" that have been going on recently are worthy of being kept and referred to.

lunchbrunchtime Where is Tiggy telling women what they should feel? I can't see anything like that. I can only assume you are simply dismissing his opinion because he is a man. What does that say about you...?