Isn't about time MNHQ started deleting posts that attack people's spelling and grammar?

I hardly ever use punctuation not sure why but I suspect it drives folk daft.

Indeed jelly- "Your shit" and "You're shit" being a prime example!

Further upthread a poster said, "its never said nicely", for me this is the crux of the matter. I don't think there's anything wrong with correcting a spelling mistake but the people who do it usually do so with the intent to belittle and humiliate the poster.

I have experienced it, i used an apostrophe with an 'S' which i thought was the plural for a noun i was using, apparently it was incorrect. I always like to improve myself and open to learning new things, but the particular poster who pointed it out, is a very well known arrogant poster who seems to get a kick out of belittling people constantly on MN, said poster continued with this until she completely derailed the thread contributing nothing to the actual query.

If you addressed someone like that in real life people will be rightly horrified but hiding behind the anonymity of a computer, people let their egos get the better of them. This is what really needs to be reigned in.

Sometimes an error changes the whole meaning of a post, or at least renders it ambiguous and it needs clarifying in order to get relevant responses. Sometimes a horrible and goady thread is started and people pull apart the errors in order to derail the troll. Sometimes an auto correct makes a hilarious mistake and there are a host of witty answers. Sometimes people won't get many replies because a lack of paragraphs means important information in their post gets lost and it would genuinely help them to space it out so that they get more helpful advice. On the other hand, sometimes people are belittled and sometimes people are discouraged from seeking help. Sometimes people just love to be superior and put someone else down.

Therefore I don't think there should be a blanket rule on posts correcting or questioning SPAG, I think it should continue as it is where people can report and individual posts are judged according to circumstance.

Text speak is a slightly different issue because that's not necessarily to do with dyslexia/weak literacy skills or similar but is a choice of expression. If text speak was prolific on here it would make the site quite different. Personally, I like the fact that it's not really used here and I think that this isn't the same as picking on 'have'/'of' etc.

I don't agree that standards of literacy have fallen.

I am fairly sure that if you could have set up MN in 1970, or 1950, standards of spelling would have been as bad, or worse (though they would have been different). My uncle (born in the 50s) has awful SPAG because people didn't really understand about dyslexia back then and so he was never taught the coping strategies people know about now. And my friend's sister, whose grammar is rotten, would not have been educated at all, because she has Down's Syndrome. I am very glad we live now, and not then.

Philslothy, I'm really sorry about what happened to you. The point about cultural capital is really important.

I wish people would stop assuming SPAG errors indicate generally low literacy or low levels of intelligence or education. It is not ok, IMO, to target people for those things anyway - if someone genuinely has low intelligence why is it ok to keep reminding them of it?

It's simple really. if a post is so full of mistakes that it either triggers your pedant alarm or is unreadable then don't read it. There are millions of other threads here to read, and if the poster needs genuine help, then your pedantry is not going to make them feel better is it?

If you cannot understand a post, or reading it makes your teeth itch, then just move along. OP isn't gagging for you in particular to understand and advise. Your having good SPAG doesn't make your opinion is any more informed or valuable.

If the item distressing you is another reader's comment, not even the OP, scroll on past rather than interrupt the thread. You wouldn't interrupt the flow of conversation at a business meeting for this, would you? OK, you might do so if you needed to score points or take someone down or show off your skills and cleverness. But office politics don't apply here.

Someone upthread pointed out that the level of sneering is rather lower when discussing GCSE-level maths, while there's a pile-in over GCSE SPAG.

That people who are willing to engage in minute analysis of other people's grammar would be highly offended if told that being unable to differentiate a simple polynomial made them innumerate is CP Snow's "two cultures" writ large. Admit to struggling with grammar and many people will sneer. Boast of find maths pointless and you are seen as interesting and insightful.

Similar arguments apply over physics versus history (consider the general reaction to confusing the first and second world wars with confusing neutrons and neutrinos) and music versus programming (A Level music: talent, A Level CS: nerd).

The irony is that mathematicians usually have perfect grammar.

Yes Debora. I see that sort of shit loads.
Help I think my husband is having an affair with my friend. There always together and he says......

Next post - they're. Hth

Well no it doesn't help. You utter utter cunt.

I'd rather be as thick as pigshit with an ounce of decency and compassion than have an iq of 160 and be a total wanker .

use a c or an s in words like practise/practice - think of the words advice/advise instead (because they're pronounced differently so easy to tell the difference).
Good practice/advice = nouns.
I'd advise you to practise more = verbs.

i thought practise/practice was a UK/US thing! i am pretty sure we use practice for both needs. or my memory is going. either way, um, thanks.

I hate bad spelling and grammar too.

At work, I frequently have to correct draft reports that have been written by others.

Outside of work, I can't imagine publicly humiliating someone by correcting their spelling or grammar. (If I felt it was really useful to them, I might have a quiet word privately - like in a PM.)

I can think of very few examples I've seen on MN where the clear purpose of the correction has NOT been to patronise or belittle the other poster. It's particularly nasty when it's the first response on a thread where an OP is in some distress.

almost the only time an OP's spelling and grammar needs to be mentioned is if it truly makes the OP impossible to understand. And even then, the purpose of the post needs to be considered, and the matter approached KINDLY. It wouldn't hurt either for readers inclined to correct to take a step back and go read some other posts for a moment. An OP in distress doesn't need to be overwhelmed with multiple critics, step back and let the first grammar pedant take the lead on helping the OP clarify. There is also the chance that although you have had trouble understanding OP, when you come back and RTFT you may discover other people had no trouble at all, and advice is flowing so just leave it alone and let the poor OP get the help they came for from the folks who could interpret the post.

it is more than OK to comment when an error creates a howler on non-distress posts or responses. the resulting strings of puns and one liners are some of the most entertaining parts of the web, not just MN.

But pulling someone up on in on AIBU just as a secondary way of criticising them or when they are obviously in distress is bullying, piling on by criticising something someone already mentioned is just teenaged mean girl levels of cruel.

It could be argued that you aren't really supposed to use capital letters for WHOLE words, mid sentence though too.

It does remind me a bit of people down south pointing out to you that you have an accent, from up north. Then you correcting them and saying actually it's the Midlands and them insisting no it's definitely all up north. I could just be going off on a tangent though

Perhaps the OP hasn't been here very long, and needs to go and read "The Grammer Police" [sic] thread?

I suppose it's quite difficult to tell in (real life) speech if someone is spelling 'you're' as 'your' in their head

I don't notice bad grammar at all really, ( I speed read ) & even if I did I'd never think to comment on it.
Certain words make me roll my eyes though & I'd ban them if I could.

1. hubby
2. play date

I'm an MFL teacher and a pedant. Like many others on here, I can't help but inwardly cringe when I see poor spelling and grammar. I would NEVER point it out to a poster though, because it would make them feel bad and would be largely pointless.

I agree that standards of literacy have fallen, and that this is particularly evident on social media and public forums (or fora ). But this is a problem which needs to be tackled in schools. Criticising random adults on MN is a tiny drop in a massive ocean. You can claim you're doing it for the greater good, but I don't believe that. I'd be doing it out of my own irritation, except I don't let myself.

Deleting people for it might be a step too far though, unless it really is nastily done. I have very rarely seen it done to upset, emotional OPs. And usually anyone who dares to do it gets a proper dressing-down from other posters.

Thewordfactory you are right I have seen things like mumsnet has gone to the dawgs what they mean is who let the plebs in.

I agree with cunty and wannabe. We need kindness more than impeccable spag on MN.

I hate it is nasty sneery and snooty regardless of any disability people have poor spelling and/or grammar and to go on a thread and say things like oh the grammar makes my teeth itch is a shitty thing to do comment on the post and no the content isnt important most people are able to get the gist sneery people chose not to.

The SPAG police are actively discriminating against posters who have learning difficulties, who have English as a second language, who had a terrible education etc

But maybe those people are wanted on MN? Maybe THEY want this to be a middle class middle aged enclave of British women with a degree from an RG univeristy?

Yy, I am a big hypocrite, I do like to see the bjullying bjitches sort get their comeuppance.

But otherwise, it's petty and makes the person with the virtual red pen look like a right bellend.

I tend to post on internet forums as I would speak, I'm sure my grammar isn't up to much but I don't think we were taught it in the west Midlands in the 1990s.

I cannot stand the SPAG police, it spoils many a good thread and fills up my spreadshit with too many names.

Except.

It does make me smile when a wanker or goady fucker starts a thread being judgemental about another parent - usually something to do with 'neglect' and an air of "won't somebody think of the children" because they parent so much better than everyone else...and their OP is riddled with spelling or grammatical errors that are then bought up by another poster as a reason NOT to listen to whatever the goady fucker is saying. . Now I love it when that happens (OP tends to either go loon or down the bjullying bjitches route )

People do, I always do and I wouldn't say I was whiny in doing so either.
I just find adults using another adults's educational ability for point scoring distasteful. You'd find that at school wouldn't you "ha ha Jenny said of instead of have, you're such a thicko Jenny". It's no different.

If you think someone's post breaks talk guidelines (which can include goady fuckerness) then report it, no let MNHQ deal with it.

The 'grammar wars' which lead to whiny threads like this are a regular and regrettable feature of MN.

But they never stop - and won't unless/until people deal with stuff on the thread

One person's sympathetic and amusing can be another's patronising and pisstaking/sneery. That's the problem I think.
Would people do it in real life mid-conversation, e.g, to a mum at the school gate? I really don't believe they would.

It's impossible to call, and where errors occur there's generally always a little self-congratulatory cluster, backpatting one another and saying "I'm soooo glad you said something my eyes were bleeding". It then goes on and on, derailing the thread and must only serve to make the person who made the mistake feel like utter shite.