Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

It's a bit of a nightmare for us personally - we're out of the country until the summer before DD starts school. We own and rent out our house that is in the village we wish her to attend school, but we can't apply there until we move back home. By which point the school will be full. So she's left with a choice of home, private or whatever dregs the LEA have left when we return. In a town where all the schools are oversubscribed, I fear we are stuffed.

Wafting you are correct. Where formal schooling starts at 6 or 7 the vast majority of DC are often in state kindergarten full time. There is a parallel with reception.

In countries where they dont start school till 6 or 7, surely most parents still have to use childcare or kindergarten? Is it very different to Reception? Genuine question. I cant imagine everyone can afford to be SAHPs and spend all day climbing trees with the kids.

I think Calamitous and Boffin have it.

I have two April born dcs. one is now nearly 6 and dealt with Reception fine - in a context where she had wrap around care from a very relaxed, very familiar, very kind childminder, who catered to her general exhaustion very well. She's temperamentally suited to school though.

My second dc is looking at starting Reception in Sep at 4 and a half and I am worried about it. She is temperamentally quite different (very bright but much more wilful and much more sensitive) and still gets very tired - but we can't find a childminder so the wrap around care will be much harder on her, much more active, much more demanding, it will all seem very harsh to her. I genuinely don't know how she will cope with it all. Not because she is younger than the cohort but because it's all a bit bloody full on, isn't it.

Who believes in the way we do this? What's the point? It's not like Germans grow up into illiterate thickos, is it?

One quick clarification for benefit of MNHQ readers - it's absolutely true that many parents have to fight to gain access to Reception class at compulsory school age for their summer born child, but there ARE cases of children born in April and May who have been allowed this access with no battle at all.

Hence my point that the DfE's Code already allows for this flexibility to occur, but the problem is that the system as it is also allows for huge inconsistencies throughout the country. Either the DfE allows and supports this (which it says it does) for ALL summer born children - or it cannot claim to have a clear, fair and objective School Admissions Code for all children.

I first became aware of the summerborn campaigners about a month ago. After seeing a lot of the media coverage, I googled and came across a mumsnet discussion which pointed me in the direction of the campaigners. I am slowly trying to educate myself as when I speak to prospective schools, I am given misinformation or patronised with anecdotes.
It has been informative and interesting to read about the other point of view on this thread but I have not been convinced by most of it. I don't want to see a situation where disadvantaged 4 yr olds are in classes where the ages range between 17 months rather than 12 but I honestly don't think this would become the widespread case. I live in a middle class city suburb and based on my experience, most middle class parents don't want to pay for an extra year of childcare (which is even more than the private schools around here if you are that way inclined) and my stay at home mum friends can't wait for school age to come around. I think the competitive type parents that are being referred to on this thread probably would want to avoid any potential stigma of keeping their child behind or admitting that they are not ready.

I probably won't apply to defer my August born child as I will see obtaining a school place in an oversubscribed area as more important. It's unlikely that huge changes will be made to our admissions or early years education in the short term so I would concentrate first on changing schools' sibling policy and supporting the summerborn campaign. Someone earlier said improving an imperfect system. Ultimately, I agree with what BoffinMum said.

I'd hugely support an increase in the age children start school - they start absurdly early in this country.

Flexibility for parents of children within certain birth dates won't prevent any of that. The only thing that can prevent what you describe is making the first few years of school suitable for young children.

The whole concept of 'school readiness' is a nonsense. Schools should be set up to cater the children that come in. The fact is, sitting in a seat and doing handwriting homework is not suitable for many 4 year olds (or even nearly 5 year olds). There is nothing wrong with those 4 year olds. The problem is the expectations placed on them by a very silly education system. Even those children who do manage to cope with it would not be disadvantaged by more open-ended play and later introduction of school type learning. No child will be bored in a properly planned play-based early childhood setting. Even at 6.

I think most people could get behind a campaign to make the early years of schooling suitable for young children. Indeed, the fact that we think early years is 0-5 while internationally the discussion is about early childhood (which is 0-8) is very telling.

However instead what we get is a campaign to let some parents game the current system by shifting their children from the disadvantaged by the cut off to most advantaged by it. That's why it is inherently nimby-ish.

My aug born daughter would have possibly made the following school year if she had been as late as she was born early...she is a second child and everyone keeps assuring me that she will 'be fine'. But my just-5 (in Feb) daughter, who has always been so confident, vocal, able and ahead of her peers developmentally all the way through, is exhausted, has nails bitten to bleeding point, cries most mornings, doesn't want to read anymore and generally seems to have lost all her enthusiasm and confidence since just before Christmas, when a 16 week term was just TOO LONG. And she was 4 and a half when she started. School is no longer about encouraging a love of learning through play but getting bottoms on seats and targets ticked for the school. It is too much too early and everyone I know iwht younger children in the year can see - as we all can - the visible differences in their ability to cope emotionally, mentally, physically and academically. One friend, born 28th Aug, has well educated parents who have encourage and helped and supported her throughout. Yet she has been 'in trouble' for comments made towards other children - basically because she is nearly a year younger than some of them so just emotionally and socially not as developed. In our area there is little support or encouragement for children being kept at home a year longer and being allowed to start in reception the following year, even if they are simply a few weeks out of the year after. Flexibility for when children start for those children born between June-November might avoid this issue in the first year or so of school, with years 1& 2 then being equally flexible in who starts when, so that by the time children are in year 2 hopefully they will be in their 'appropriate' age year as their self esteem and confidence will have been focused on in reception and year 1 rather than academic prowess and ability to read or write or sit still for long periods at a time, indoors, 5 days a week. In this way, hopefully, by year 2 those who were less ready to start school will have found their feet and be ready to learn, rather than having already lost any desire to learn as is so often the case.

I agree CW. Reception should be suitable for 4 years olds. Ours is amazing. I don't support the summer born campaign but think that really formal academic teaching of 4 year olds is daft and the government obsession with it has gone mad

Easiest way to get rid of the summer born problem?

All kids to start school the September after they are six.
Free kindergarten from 3-6 to prepare.
It's not rocket science.

Absolutely Boffin. That would be much better for everyone. There may still be an age effect but it will be reduced and matter much less. Someone will always be the youngest.

There is actually no good reason why reception should be unsuitable for any 4 year old. The problem is the DfE is full of people who erroneously believe that teaching children academic material earlier will improve later results, despite screeds of very compelling evidence to the contrary.

As an aside does anyone know if there has been a rise in home schooling? I often see people saying they do or will homeschool as they can't get in a school of their choice. I see people declaring 'I am never sending my child to x local school'. I get it if the allocated school is miles away but not if its local.

And let's not forget Boffin that LAs can only expand their own school (as well as not open new ones). In my area 50% are academies so just say no. LAs can't force faith schools to expand either. One RC local one said no

Yes ,I have read it. I think all of the admission business is just too much. In my area all schools have bad ofsted report so I rather educate my children at home

Have you read the thread, morrissey and sunflowershine?

I don't think children are emotionally ready to start full time school at such young age ,especially summer born. They can learn a lot more in loving home...and why don't we just stop stealing their childchood

it feels like the admissions team are so desperate for my school space yet they cant confirm weather he will start this year or next year. Sorry if post do not sense still new to this!!

would like my summer born boy (28 of august 2011) to be allowed into reception 2016, and my views to be looked at

Boffin - yes some of us are living in areas where all catchment children get priority over out of catchment children with or without siblings at a school. I do think that should be the norm despite us very nearly falling foul of that rule.

Next thought.

If Local Authorities fail to provide proper school places in a timely manner, with sufficient notice for parents to make the necessary arrangements re: uniform, transport and so on, force them to pay school fees for children without places to go private.

That will concentrate their minds.

Easiest way to get rid of the summer born problem?

All kids to start school the September after they are six.
Free kindergarten from 3-6 to prepare.
It's not rocket science.

My thoughts on the matter of admissions.

There are schools I know, many schools, where hardly anyone seems to live locally, and the places are predominantly allocated to younger siblings of families who originally lived in the area a decade or more previously, and then moved away maintained the ability to send their kids there due to sibling-friendly admissions rules at the expense of locals using the school for the first time. Meanwhile local kids, sometimes literally on the same street, are taxied across town to schools that happen to have empty places miles away from home, with their siblings having to go to other schools at the opposite end of town. This is a complete nonsense. If you move out of an area, the sibling preference rule should no longer apply. If you want your kids at the same school, send them to the local one.

Primary admissions has become much more of a problem since the birth rate went up in about 2008.

Our council was still busy responding to falling rolls then, and closing schools down. I remember asking in 2010 why they didn't wait for the census in 2011 and use that information to inform their actions. I was told that they didn't use the census information to plan school place numbers.

They closed schools down, and lo and behold 3 years later were forced to expand a few schools to fit all the extra children in.

So all the rhetoric about 'falling rolls' was just a disguise for wanting larger, cheaper, more cramped schools.

And the by product is parents scrambling ever more anxiously for school places. And kids being driven and bussed miles around every day.

The incompetence of some local councils astounds me.

YY CW.