Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

But why should siblings miss out just because your child is an only? You seriously can't expect most parents to be able to get two or even three+ children to different primary schools for 9am.

One of the reasons I didn't want to send DS to a faith school because it is so important for children to mix with children from as wide a range of cultures and belief systems as the local demographics will allow.

But realistically is it fair from where I live - as a C of E I would have the choice of 2 schools (community primary or c of e)

Catholics would have the choice of 4 (1 community, 3 catholic)

People who don't want faith schools get no choice.

Is that fair?

Completely agree, mellicauli. If you want a specialist education, like a faith-based one, you should pay for it yourself, and not get the state to organise and pay for it to the detriment of other children.

Bollocks they share the same beliefs. Their parents share the same beliefs.

Wanting your children only to mix with people who think like you is not healthy.

This topic makes me angry, can you tell?

Distance/catchment priority discriminates by household income (and skews house prices - vicious circle).

Faith priority discriminates by parental dedication. They don't measure faith, but compliance.

They are not being discrimated against, in most faith schools there is criteria that allows for non religious children, but of course they have the right to admit children of faith first. If parents are that bothered they can always have their children baptised but ofcourse for some this clearly would require too much erffort from them.

Yes - same will be happening here with secondary school places.

Personally, even though I did move to be near the school my children go to , I do think there should be 2 factors for allocating places: distance from school and time living in the area (at parish level). We should be looking to communities with our schools, not just add to house price inflation.

I went to university in Belfast. I always felt the faith school system there fuelled the sectarian divide. So I don't think the State should be involved in that kind of education - if that's what you want for your children, you should pay for it.

I think if distance is the criteria they are going to use then all applications (after LAC/statemented) should be ranked by distance and the closest 30 get a place. Siblings should only get priority if there is a tie over the last place.

Our nearest school had 25 siblings the year DD started school so of course she didn't get in. I really don't believe all those 25 families live closer than us.

They put a bulge class in the year after DD started, so loads of kids from further down our road got in. What happens when their siblings start and there isn't a bulge class?

Not looking forward to secondary applications either. 2006 was when the baby bulge started so although most of the local schools haven't had a problem up to now, there is going to be one very soon.

Oh and I'm sorry but siblings should be above other children when it comes to ranking criteria. I can imagine it would be completely impractical to have two children at two separate schools, I know it does happen occasionally but most schools would try their upmost to accommodate siblings first as they are aware of the in practicalities.

I well remember the confusion over how the system worked when DS was small. I visited loads of school before choosing the local one which was also the on,y one where the head teacher crouched down to listen to DS.

In my current area we have had a glut of schools in Special Measures/Requires Improvement. It was so bad that we now have an Education Excellence Panel chaired by a former head of OFSTED. I was very impressed when I heard him speak, the bulk of which seemed to be "would I be happy if my grandchildren came to this school? If not why would I expect any other parent/grandparent to accept it".
Thought he was brilliant.
Upshot is that local schools are gradually improving.

I was so grateful at secondary level as by then DS had a Statement of SEN which meant I could choose any school I felt could meet his needs. I went for the smallest local school I could find.

I just signed up and my DC's have got into the school of our choice without any fuss or bother (Wales)

well we are UK expats living overseas at the moment and planning on returning this summer so extra stressful as we don't have a UK address yet so that pretty much rules out any schools which are over subscribed because as soon as they start applying the criteria we would be out on distance. In fact some LEAs don't even let you apply until you have a UK address unless you are forces or diplomats (which we are not).

We have changed our plans on location several times based on likelihood of getting a place (nevermind a good place) as some areas are just so overcrowded we would not stand a chance.

I understand why they have this rule as would be a waste of time and not fair to those already in the UK but it does add an extra frisson of tension and worry, not sure what could be done about it though.

Bottomline is that the Govt has not built enough schools or created enough spaces in areas where there is a need, the stats are out there as to population levels, birth rates etc they have chosen not to act on them and now there is chronic overcrowding in many areas.

But you are okay with other children being discriminated against, though, Twoplus3?

Personally though I wouldn't want to send my child to just any old school, and it sounds like this would be the case if we lived in Scotland. And regards the religious criteria I think this should remain in affect for both RC and CofE schools. I like the fact that my children go to school with children who are from the Catholic community and whilst all children are different, they share the same beliefs which is nice.

Everyone has a pfb, so everyone suffers "no siblings" at least once. The logistics of getting primary-aged children to different schools at the same time do make sibling priority logical.

However, I agree with pps that the sibling link shouldn't be more important than proximity. I'd support prioritising siblings within catchment only.

I have no problem with faith schools - I spent a couple of years at one. I have a huge problem with state funding for faith schools, and faith selection for state schools, particularly where the faith selection proportion exceeds the faith funding proportion (eg church pays for 5%, but 22% get in on faith criteria).

If you think faith schools are more successful simply because of the faith link, rather than the additional layer of admissions selection... I pity you.

I live in rural Cheshire not footballer belt where all the schools within sensible logistical distance are Good or Outstanding, and very few are oversubscribed. If you're in catchment, you get in. If you aren't, you probably get in, but otherwise you end up at an equally good school within a mile or two (only the big villages are oversubscribed, and they typically have more than one school).

This means admissions is mildly interesting, rather than nail-biting. Still looking forward to getting past next Thursday, mind you.

In Scotland if new housing is planned in an area then school capacity is looked at before planning permission is granted.

Someone skipped that one here! Our local school used to be relatively small (150-170) and then hundreds of houses were built. They're bursting at the seams now, and the hundreds of young couples who bought the houses' all seem to have children about 3-4 (and siblings, of course). No one knows where they will all go!

The Scottish system actually sounds harder to sort from the schools POV then as they have little consistency in numbers/amount of classes and staff. Must be a logicistical nightmare for the school.

"the church is effectively funding your child using donations from other parishioners"

Maybe church schools should charge fees to parents rather than rely on parish contributions?

If there is 26 kids in the local catchment area starting P1 in Scotland then they start a 2nd class. Often a composite with a P2 class. This may mean creating a new classroom, often the school has spare rooms as the role rises and falls. These rooms are often music/drama/library rooms but get changed back to classrooms as the need arises. Or there are portacbins in the playground. The council has to supply a place at the local school in P1.

In Scotland if new housing is planned in an area then school capacity is looked at before planning permission is granted. If the school is full then the house builders have to help fund the cost of an additional school.

I live in Scotland but am (extremely vaguely) contemplating moving to England, but with a 3.5 year old DD, it would just be too much of a worry to get my head round the English schooling admission system.

Right now, as far as I know, all I need to do is show up at my local school in January with DD's birth certificate, then she'll be all set for school in August!

Do you think it would work better, SweetieXPie, if all faith schools were private? Because the problem where I live is that most state schools are faith school, but most local children aren't of the right faith, so are dispersed all over the place, while the "correct" children travel in. It all seems so ridiculous - and yet, in theory, we have (almost) enough school places locally. We just aren't allowed to use them.

If the faith schools went private, the the local council would be forced to make proper provision for other children, and the local balance of state schools wouldn't be so skewed.

If 26 children register for P1 the classes have to be split. You'd probably get a P1 and a P1/2 composite class.

If you move into the area and the class is full you have to wait until a space comes up, so you would be offered another school.

I think faith should not be part of the criteria.

When we bought our house a huge factor was that it had a good none faith school nearby

So if 26 Children live in the catchment then what happens?