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OFFICIAL MNHQ THREAD on posts about suicide, troll-hunting and related matters

84 replies

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:10

Hello

There have been so many threads about this over the past few days, and so many divergent points of view - and so much upset - that we'd really like to have the discussion in one place rather than in many different threads all over the boards.

For those who haven't heard yet: we are actively reviewing our policy about threads regarding suicidal feelings and suicidal intent. We are seeking expert input from outside organisations including the Samaritans. Once we have that we will come back and have a further discussion with MNers about the way forward.

We'll be here to talk on the thread throughout the day, but do please note that we WILL delete troll-hunting posts for all the obvious reasons. So PLEASE do not use this thread to make insinuations about identifiable posters - keep it general please.

Re: Wombat: we understand that some reporters had concerns, but at the same time this poster had been around for years with a very consistent posting history. We absolutely do not have any concrete reason to disbelieve her. However, her thread had been immensely upsetting and triggering for many users, and has prompted a site-wide discussion about how we handle these threads. Once her husband had posted that she was at home with him and under the care of RL professionals it really seemed best all round to delete the thread.

We contacted Wombat at the time to explain our deletion and we still feel that for many very good reasons this is best sorted out off-board between us and her; we've asked her again to reply to our email and we will happily take it from there.

We also think that this whole case is a very good illustration of why we have no-trollhunting rules. We understand that some of you find them frustrating, but for every correct troll-call, there's an incorrect one. Being called a troll in public when you're giving an honest account of deeply upsetting real-life circumstances can be devastating for people.

Equally, we do 'get' that there are a lot posters and threads at the moment that seem deeply suspicious. We are on the front foot with this and have been being pretty pro-active at closing things down when they are reported to us and when we can see that things aren't adding up, particularly if they are new users.

So we need you to keep reporting and NOT break troll-hunting rules on the boards unless MNHQ itself has said publicly that we are confident that someone was a deliberate trouble-maker.

The namechange/sock-puppeting thing is extremely easy for us to spot when it's reported. It's not a judgement call - it's black and white and it's the work of a moment for us to spot it and deal with it.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:46

@MrsLettuce

There was a big discussion about this in '09 (I think), the circumstances weren't dissimilar. I could have sworn that MNHQ had taken advice / revised their policy / made A Plan at the time. Allegedly lessons were learnt, but here we are again.

We've had the discussion several times MrsLettuce and as far as we know we've implemented the policies we came up with at the time.

One of the problems is there is absolutely no consensus, among posters, about how these threads should be dealt with. Many MNers feel VERY strongly that genuine users who feel suicidal should be able to use MN as a source of support and help. Others feel VERY strongly that they should not.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:43

@TantrumsAndBalloons

I have to agree with giles

You can't be a self moderating forum and a moderated one at the same time. It seems slightly ridiculous to say it can work.

It's so fucking easy to troll here. It's a joke. And day after day people get taken in and offer real life help, share emotional stories, experiences because they want to help someone. People are giving out their phone numbers ffs because they want to help.

And then we have to have 17 spin off threads after its deleted just to rehash the whole sorry mess all over again.

And- posting history? Means nothing. Sorry but it doesn't.

We're not self-moderated - we're moderated. Every single report gets dealt with and replied to, and tbh while we work hard it doesn't feel from this end as though we have more reports than we can handle.

There is simply no such thing, anywhere on the internet, as a public forum that doesn't attract its share of trolls, inflammatory posters and posters who attract disbelief. And there is no magic way of getting rid of them. It's not that there are tools MNHQ could be using and aren't.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:38

@MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs

Rowan

You are telling us to report and let you deal with things.

The thing is, with no HQ around over night, things don't get dealt with. Genuine posters are hurt at accusations, and real trolls are having a fine old time.

Its got completely out of hand. Sad

We've got the Night Watch, who are there to zap egregious overnight stuff and have mostly been doing a good job of it as far as we can see - but we're happy to beef this up if there's a consensus that there need to be more of them.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:34

@ElliotLovesGrub

It is hard not to troll hunt when they are so blatant sometimes and you watch their story contradicting itself and people being sucked in regardless. Like with the thread that is still being seen as real, it's very hard to see that and know that there are women out there reading it and getting upset by it and missing the parts where it doesn't match up. It's like long term trolls are an unspoken thing here, like they don't exist. I understand that those are the hardest to spot but we can't pretend they don't happen.

We do know it's bloody hard at times. The hardest cases are those in which nobody knows for sure, including us.

We aren't asking for people to pretend they're not happening - but we are asking you to keep on-board discussions general and report specific concerns to MNHQ.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:32

Sangria we are actively reviewing our policy on suicidal posts right now.

And yes, we do ban people who use the namechange policy to deliberately mislead.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:30

@GilesGirl

And look! I can name change right in the middle of a thread! What shall I sock as today?

If what Justine said the other day is true? That Mumsnet is a moderated forum? Then you don't have enough moderators.

If it is self moderating, as we've been told for years, then let the users self moderate.

As we used to.

What a load of bollocks. Say good bye to Mumsnet, the trolls have taken over the asylum.

If you had namechanged a little box would have popped up on the thread to tell MNHQ so and to direct us to each of your posts in turn.

It's lightly moderated. We have rules, but not loads. We do rely on our users to stick to them.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:28

Nobody has ever been admonished for reporting to MNHQ for any reason!

Thanks Chilling, we will do and we will read them Brew

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:27

@MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs

Not good. Sad

Name changing/ sock-puppeting is easy for HQ to spot, not us.

How can we report when you are more likely to be admonished for suspecting a troll than being one ?

We're not saying don't report - we're saying don't say it on the thread. Not sure if we understand your point?

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:22

@wooooosualsuspect

There's no point reporting any more.

The Trolls are winning.

That's just not true Usual. We've banned scores of people recently off the back of users' reports.

And the real trolls are presumably very much enjoying seeing perfectly innocent users being accused of trolling, to the extent that anyone posting under a new name runs the risk of being openly disbelieved.

Watch this thread for updates

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