Obviously that's the thread that prompted all this soul-searching 26 so it wouldn't really make sense to try to have a discussion about it without mentioning it at all. We're asking people to not post up anything that implies that any identifiable poster is trolling - none of the posts on this thread are making that insinuation we think?

Well, we've always tried to avoid the public punishment thing. Our view is: we're all adults and nobody needs to be hung out to dry in front of a crowd.

Where someone is an absolute slam-dunk troll and has been banned, we do tend to let reporters know and put it in the deletion message. But anything that has a grey area, we've always found it best to keep more private between us and the poster concerned. We do occasionally get things wrong, after all, and don't want to publicly announce that someone was a troll/has been banned and then subsequently find out we'd made a howler.

Not sure about the other TAAT you're referring to - can you mail in and we'll take a look?

We did agree recently that we would suspend people's ability to namechange if they abused it and we're happy to carry on doing that. It would be helpful if you could flag up in your report that that's one of the reasons you're reporting them.

Thanks

No, this isn't fair really.

If we take a look and we agree it looks dodgy, we'll do something about it. But we do need something to go on; we can't delete and ban people just because one or two reporters don't like their style.

We have banned and deleted scores of posters and threads over the past couple of weeks.

If we say 'we'll keep an eye on it' it's because, having had a pretty good look, we can't see any reason to be suspicious, or because we can see things that indicate the poster is on the level. We're always happy to revisit those ones if new information emerges, but in the meantime, no troll-hunting is the rule.

Derek, it was deleted because of your remark that you were 'calling bullshit' on a thread. As we said in the OP, we really want to keep this discussion general and we will delete troll-hunting posts.

@ExtraWickedDevil

What I would really like is some honesty. Troll hunting is bullying and it is really unedifying to read posts from people who are kicking vulnerable people when they are down. Do they get banned? Or are they just " reminded" of the talk guidelines?

Well, our usual MO is to first clock that someone has done it once; then to mail them if they do it again, reminding them of the Guidelines; then to take it further (sin-binning or banning permanently) if they carry on. This isn't set in stone; sometimes we'll ban outright if someone seems to have joined up purely to troll-hunt and be nasty, sometimes we'll warn people a few times (if they're otherwise a poster with a record of being genuinely helpful and supportive) before moving to more extreme measures. But it IS against our rules and it DOES get dealt with.

Thanks for all the suggestions - we will note them all and discuss, promise.

Thank you VSeth

From MNHQ's POV, we distinguish between the kind of thing you describe here (ie changing a few details because you want to post about something intimate or identifying and you don't want it associated with your 'normal' username) and people who seem to change details that are central to their overall account - if that makes sense?

Yes. It's very sticky. And the catch-all 'troll' isn't really covering the many possible scenarios. Over the years we've seen some users who have started off absolutely fine nailed-on MNers but have become deeply concerning/inflammatory/inconsistent only after really quite a long period of time.

The resigned cynicism is a shame. The internet is what it is and as we said before, not a single site that we know of has managed to solve this particular problem, unless it's a closed private site that pre-vets members.

That's why our approach is to ask people to only give of themselves what they can afford. If you know that a particular topic is really difficult or costly for you, and you know that a subsequent realisation that someone wasn't genuine is likely to deeply upset you, then you might like to consider giving it a swerve.

No worries and thank you, it's very useful. Please do mail!

Infinity - we've just dug up the case we think you're talking about, and that user was banned.

Thanks - this has been suggested a few times recently.

Whaddya all think? OTOH, it's creating a bit of 'them and us' - newbies vs oldies - and implying that a new-ish user is less valid/trustworthy than an oldie. OTOH, lots of people think it would be one way of addressing the troll-hunting problem. It's only really worth considering if it would really act as a way of stopping people calling troll on threads. We do hold it to be self-evident that all MNers are created equal apart from the fecking trolls

@SleepySuitcaseSheepie

It's not Rowans fault - she is just letting us know what's happening - thanks for that and maybe a glass or two?

Thanks

Haven't heard 'mogglers' for years...

Thanks. We do sometimes warn and ban people for troll-hunting but we will check that we're doing this as diligently as we should.

The deletion messages were partly an attempt to solve this problem (by putting as much info as possible in there) but annoyingly, at the moment they're not viewable on mobile. Hopefully once that is sorted there will be fewer threads about deleted threads.

Actually (and apols for not letting people know this) NWers now get alerts when a post or poster or thread is reported multiple times. So just reporting as normal will get through to them so long as enough people (and it's not a very high number) do it.

Oh blimey, sorry to hear this. If you email us the details off-board we will have a look. And (sorry, too many balls) right now I can't think who the poster you're referring to was (when you're asking why she didn't get a ban) and on-thread really isn't the place to go into it in all honesty - but do please add the details to your mail as well?

Thanks very much re the info on MIND - we will get in contact with them (or again do please mail us with the links and we will get on it).

We've always had these threads, although there does seem to have been a bit of an uptick recently. What we can't tell is whether they're being reported more (because people are shaken up), whether there are just more genuine threads (because we're bigger than we used to be), or whether this is (in SOME cases) part of what seems to be a nasty influx of inflammatory trolls over the last couple of months. Probably a combo of all three.

Thanks for the suggestion. We will absolutely add that to our list of things to discuss with them.

It's really tricky. On the one hand we have users who are in with the bricks (either because they're long-term MNers or because they just become part of MN very quickly) and who probably broadly share similar ideas of what MN is. Those users tend to form fast friendships and use MN for lots of different things, from school-run dresses to MH support.

But we are also a truly massive community now with many disparate voices and many different opinions about how things like this should be handled.

And also, alongside that, some persistent re-regging trouble-makers and drive-by irritants.

[quote BettyMoody]i don't think this is part of the Mn remit, talking people down. And is a dangerous path to tread. They might be long term mumsnetters but they cannot, CANNOT rely on advice from strangers on here. ( unless about mum boots obv )

It is very dangerous indeed.

www.samaritans.org/[/quote]

Thanks Betty and we know lots of people agree with you on that one. There are also some who feel very strongly that it has helped them in the past though. And this is the cleft stick we are stuck in at the moment (and why we want to know what people think, so that once we've got expert advice from the Samaritans we can put it together with what users have said and try to come up with something measured and sensible.)

Nearly WannaBe, but me and the rest of the team are full-time on community/site duties (ie purely on replying to reports and looking at Talk-related issues) all day every day. We are also on call up until late in the evening.

We don't have paid mods overnight, no - never have had. We did have a big discussion about this before we started the Night Watch and sod's law can't find the thread to link to right now

yy they can and do lock threads. We can absolutely ask them to routinely lock suicidal threads and add a link to the Samaritans - but of course that will mean that any user (including absolutely nailed-on long-term MNers) will not be able to use MN to talk to people if they're feeling suicidal overnight.

Thanks Betty. NW do lock things until we can have a look. To be fair they were probably genuinely unsure what to do about last night's thread - this is a very tricky situation.

Here's the thread on which we announced and explained Night Watch. It's been working very well so far and egregious overnight stuff has been getting zapped very quickly.

We'll have a look