Scottish Referendum debate - watch with Mumsnet

Yup using the pound is a very very different thing.

But that's not CU is it? That's using the pound. Completely different thing from CU. I have no issue with Scotland using the pound if they want to - it's up to them what they use, but if there's to be CU the rUK have to agree- and I don't believe CU is in the interests of the rUK, nor do I think it will happen.

Another article on CU:

www.cityam.com/article/1394565144/big-independence-lie-scotland-could-keep-pound

My understanding is that the risk of collapse would be greater for Scotland because the banks, as it stands, are much bigger relative to Scotland than the UK as a whole. Much bigger than it was for Iceland.

"I would imagine that as a very junior partner Scotland would have very little say in what rUK did"

So, we'd be a really junior partner and therefore rUK would still have significant control over what we did...so what's the point!

"I can't see the point of a CU, informally continuing to use the pound would seem to be better, and less contentious."

It's certainly an option and one I could see us ending up with. But it has very significant downsides especially when you would potentially have two economies pulling in opposite directions. The BoE would have absolutely no obligation to consider Scotland in its decision making process. This could be really, really bad if our economies diverge- actions taken for a flourishing rUK economy could be massively damaging for a recessionary Scotland. And borrowing would be tricky...

As well as financial institution from government policy. Have a read of the link above though for all the negatives. There's more than just that.

I don't believe the rUK is more likely to collapse than a small country such as Scotland.

But anyway my question remains - it's clearly not going to happen as the majority in rUK do not want it (I feel for those who would live in England and work in Scotland though) - so why keep pretending we'll suddenly all see the light and it will go ahead?

Define " collapse" and why would this happen? I think TBH the risk would more be to Scotland in the event of an rUK collpase - City of London is where all of the dodgy high risk banking activity happens.

From my link above for example The continuing UK would become unilaterally exposed to much greater fiscal and financial risk from a separate state. Greater fiscal risk would come from UK taxpayers being asked to support the wider economy of another state and also financial risk were banks from that state to fail

Although my question is actually the one the Statistically highlighted. Whatever the arguments for or against it's clearly not going to happen. So why do people keep ignoring that?

Downside for rUK is they're on the hook if Scotland has some sort of collapse. No thanks.

TBH I can't see the point of a CU, informally continuing to use the pound would seem to be better, and less contentious.

Yes - that's exactly it StatisticallyChallenged.

Downsides for the UK is that we get a whole load of risk and no benefit. I would expect the rUK government to act in our interests - not Scotland's.

I would imagine that as a very junior partner Scotland would have very little say in what rUK did. And surely the terms of a CU would set out what each party can and cannot "do".

I cant see any risk to the rUK, but I can see lots of difficulties for rUK if it is refused. A biggie of course is that Scotland would have to take back all the money it has in BOE to back Scottish notes, and of course rUK would have more debt with less assets.

Downside for rUK - both sides would have to approve each others budgets and fiscal plans I believe. Why would the rUK want to do that, especially given the insistence that Scotland will have such different priorities?

xposted with everything after oldlady's first link!

I don't think, from a quick read, that actually answers saintlyjimjams' question though. It questions the logic and rationale of the treasury/govt position - fine. But it does not answer why do people keep saying the currency union will happen

I think what saintly was getting at (correct me if I am wrong saintly!) is that all major UK political parties have said no, and there is at the moment significant public opposition to it in England and Wales. Given this, regardless of whether it would actually be better or worse for Scotland or the rUK, why are people refusing to countenance that it won't be allowed to happen because 68% of those polled in England and Wales oppose it and so it would be a political disaster for the party in power to push it through. Especially given that there is a general election in the middle of the negotiating period and it looks likely that all parties will include a manifesto pledge against it.

CU is as far as I can see in the best interests of rUK?

What are the downsides for rUK?

Well that sets out why Scotland might want CU but it doesn't say that it would have to go ahead, and I cannot see why we (rUK) would want it. I'd vote against any party saying they would support CU in the next GE.

I found this more convincing: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/279454/CM8815_2901849_SA_SterlingUnion_acc.pdf

scotlandseptember18.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Currency-Options-for-an-Independent-Scotland.docx Part B.

scotlandseptember18.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FinalScotlandCurrencyA1The-Hunter-Foundation.docx

Why do people keep saying CU will happen - when it's pretty clear it won't? I've read a lot of evidence on why it won't happen, but can't find any proper evidence on why it will. I am trying to read both sides, please can someone post a sensible 'will' link.

I think an independent but in the EU Scotland attached to an out of the EU rest of the UK would be a pretty shit situation tbh!

Agreed OOAOML, it's really inconsistent. If we're in we have to follow EU regulations. We're not a big enough country to negotiate massive concessions for ourselves.

But if RUK vote to leave the EU we'll be hunky dory!

Agree - if Scotland is independent and part of the EU, they would have to offer free education to all English people.

Absolutely Statistically - it beggars belief that there is apparently no inconsistency between 'automatically in the EU/fast tracked into the EU' and breaking EU rules.

I actually think our free tuition is at greater risk as part of an independent Scotland. At the moment we can afford it, but part of the reason for this is that we exclude students from the rest of the UK from being free. We get away with this because it's an "internal" issue for the UK so the EU doesn't get involved, but EU rules state that you can't discriminate against students from other EU countries

How would free tuition remain affordable with high numbers of English/Welsh/NI students coming here for free?