Scottish Referendum debate - watch with Mumsnet

Are there any countries who've ever wanted to "return to the fold", having asked for and achieved independence?

I tried to Google it - but could only find pages and pages about the Scottish referendum with a few references to Taiwan and Quebec.

Convince me FannyFifer.......honestly. I want to do the right thing!!!

As an example of the problem with "Yes" we have our local activist (tiny village). She has repeatedly been asked, politely, not to put literature through the door as it is wasted - we have made up our minds and do not want to be forever recycling. However, she does not listen. She seems to think we are too stupid to know what we want or to make up our own minds because we are "No" and we, therefore, as said above, somehow don't want what's best for Scotland.

No will prevail, but like a marriage where someone has had an affair, it will be very, very hard afterwards to put things back together again. The "Yes" campaign has lost the economic argument time and time again. They really only have two arguments - 1. We hate the Tories and you do too so vote yes. And 2. Wallace, Braveheart, Roy Roy tartan.

Interestingly, the "Yes" campaign has been doing a lot of fairly dodgy campaigning amongst teens which could, if the vote goes to a recount (which it won't) tie the whole thing up in legislation for years.

Good article today.

www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/05/scottish-independence-financial-sector-currency-union-standard-life

It has to be that quick for the SNP to stamp their mark all over it before the next Holyrood election in 2016

In reality, I'm not sure how achievable that timescale is, especially with the UK General Election in 2015 to factor in.

The oil is a bonus, we are a rich country even without it.

I just feel it's a huge leap into the unknown, with, in my opinion, not enough information. It's not something we can go back on in eg two years time and say 'oops, we made a mistake, can we get back in please?' My concern is the legacy I leave behind for the young children in my family. It's not just my lifetime, it's what kind of country it'll be in 40/50/60 when they will be middle aged. I don't want to make a huge mistake on their behalf because I put my X in the 'yes' box! I need to be sure the oil will still be flowing for a very long time to come!!!!

Wow, that seems quite quick - thanks!

www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/779-poultice-darling-needs-to-give-scotlandshire-viewers-what-they-want.html Just to lighten the mood... member After a yes vote, there will be about 18 minths of negotiations, and Independence Day is planned as 24 March 2016.

Olddear - to be fair on the poster who wrote "those of us who care about Scotland" - she was was just reflecting back the same words that a previous, No voting, poster had used "let those of us who really care about Scotland go forward in peace and stronger within a United Kingdom" - but who hadn't then got jumped upon.

I hope don't think either of them meant it as bluntly as they came across.

Nicola had already pretty much debated everyone.

Darling had no say over anything, he can't give answers.

So far, all I've heard from the Better Together Campaign has been lots of threats and half-truths.

The latest literature from HM Government has a lot of contradictions and threats, it's quite shocking how far they'll go.

Olddear It may be democracy, but there are a lot more people in the south of England alone than in Scotland. Unfortunately, they have a lot more say in how things are run.

I'm a Scot living in England so haven't had the same exposure as I would have had I still been in Scotland. If the vote goes in favour of Independence, has any timescale been put forward as to when Scotland will actually cease to be part of the Union?

I didn't want to be ruled by Tony Blair, and I don't want to be ruled by Tories either. A yes vote will give me - all of us - that freedom. Of course any given individual won't always get the gvt they voted for, but we can do better than we have in the past 30-40 years, surely?

I get angry when scots (and I am one, living in Scotland) say it's unfair we are being ruled by a Tory government when we don't want to be ruled by the Tories! I didn't want to be ruled by Tony Blair but that's what happened!! That's democracy! I'm enjoying the debates re the referendum but lean towards a No vote. And I do take exception to the poster who said 'those of us who care about Scotland' we ALL care! SNP dont have the monopoly on that! I just feel there's not enough information re currency etc. and if I hear Norway used as a comparison one more time......!!!!!!!!

I'm still trying to understand why it is we are "better together". I hope that Darling will elaborate on that tonight.

I can understand the response "because I *feel" British and want to remain so" ie a gut response - and indeed, that is why I would have voted No in 1979 if I had been able to (as it was, my voted counted as a No even though I wasn't allowed to vote ).

But times have changed since then. Things promised in 1979 never materialised. I think if a genuinely federal structure had been set up then across the UK, a lot of the impetus towards independence would have been diverted.

So far, all I've heard from the Better Together Campaign has been lots of threats and half-truths. For example, you won't be able to use the pound even though it's an internationally traded currency or the NHS is stronger together - despite the fact that the Scottish NHS is already and has always been a separate entity, with commercial reciprocal arrangements with the English NHS (as well as Ireland and other countries) or that we don't know whether we will be able to join the EU (we don't know whether we'll be in the EU if there is an In/Out Referendum after the next Westminster election, assuming Scotland votes No).

The one that really annoys me is that the English would become "foreigners" as if that's somehow a bad thing . As someone who came to Scotland when I was 3, just aboout all my blood relatives (with the exception of my Dad, brother and ds) are "foreigners", from Germany, South Africa, Denmark, Australia.....

My dad is always telling me that the decision to vote Yes or No shouldn't be based on economics (we'd got talking about the potential size of the Claire Ridge oilfield) but about whether you think it is the right thing to do. In his view, it is about self-determination and values, which is why he is voting Yes.

I would have loved to have seen a devomax option (properly worked out, and properly guaranteed) on the ballot, but it's not there. I don't think anyone will have the energy to demand it after September either, whichever way the vote goes. I just hope it's a clear, decisive vote, at least 60/40.

Alistair Darling heads the No campaign. The debate is about Scotland. Although was Nicola Sturgeon not put in charge of the Yes campaign? Why is she not debating tonight? Or for maximum confusion the two Blairs?

As for the yes/no question I imagine the main concerns were splitting the no vote, or people going for devo max as the 'safe' option. But just to show I can be critical of the UK government I think there should be a second paper as there was in 97. Then we could have voted on independence, and expressed a preference for devo max/devo plus/something else in the event of a No vote. not sure if the Yes side would want a similar set of options? I have seen a broad spectrum of opinion on both sides, not sure how well a single question captures it.

They will all run for it, given that they are the leaders of the other parties (Sturgeon excepted obv). The thought of any of them on an international stage doesn't bear thinking about...unless you're up for a bit of a larf

Alex might be FM in the first iScotland elections, or he might not be. He might stand down and let Nicola take charge. I think it probably will be another SNP majority gvt, but thereafter, once the other parties have had time to regroup and rethink their policies, (assuming we stay with the PR system we currently use) I'd like to see a far better balanced Parliament, representing fairly the views of as many people as possible, and working out policies that are less ideological/party-political and, most importantly, are actually in the best interests of Scotland.

Aye have a dream...

Ah no it's David Mundell that's the Tory Mp.

Christ is Carmichael a Lib Dem, I thought he was the one Tory Mp.

So...Alex won't be PM of an independent Scotland. ...which leaves us Joanne, Ruth or Willie....?

Depends on who wants to run for it. I don't think Sturgeon would be a particularly bad choice, if I'm honest. That said, Salmond would be in charge... if we vote him in. Much like the referendum, it would depend on who an independent Scotland voted for I guess.

Thanks for posting the source OldLadyKnowsSomething. :)

"Speaking to the Herald newspaper, the Lib Dem MP said that Scots would need to be reminded that they were governed by Westminster and not just Holyrood."

^ Very worrying. I also agree that I have a bad feeling about it as we have been promised more powers before, and they never materialized. I think it's very clear that Cameron is scared, as the UK needs Scotland more than Scotland needs the UK.

Lib Dem MP Carmichael? The Lib Dems making increasingly desperate attempts to distinguish themselves? I'm not too worried what he says.