Scottish Referendum debate - watch with Mumsnet

On currency, a formal CU with £ is best not only for Scotland, but also rUK. Without it, rUK would no longer be a petrocurrency supported by our oil and gas industry and would lose 10% of GDP while taking on all of the debt (as stated by the Treasury earlier this year). This would lead to a drop in credit rating, leading to higher borrowing costs for gvt and also anyone with a mortgage, overdraft or credit card. We don't want that to happen because 70% of our exports go to rUK, so it's in our best interests to share the £ and the debt. Win win.

And yes, we could just keep using it anyway, but that would still lead to rUK credit rating dropping etc so... It's back to a formal CU.

I was quoting salmond! We'll be in a currency union cos that's what is best.

SirChenjini, I think that's the first time I've agreed with you over many indyref threads. Had that option been on the ballotpaper, I'd have gone for it, and I believe most others would have done too; it would have been a landslide winner.

But Cameron said no, it must be a yes/no ballot, because he believed we'd say no and he could carry on as before. There's no appetite in WM to give us any true devo, and they won't if say say no. It'll just be more austerity, more cuts, more kids raised in poverty, the dismantling of our NHS, removal of free prescriptions, imposal of student tuition fees. And that'll be whether it's Tories next GE, or Labour. And we know this because they've already told us.

Things won't go downhill fast. They won't go downhill at all; there may be a few years while we sort ourselves out, but there's no way iScotland would or could be bankrupt in a decade. We have huge natural resources and assets that people want; our oil, gas, whisky just for starters. There's no reason to think we'll be out of the EU either; yes, we'll have to renegotiate t&c but the idea that Spain, for example, would be willing to give up access to our fisheries just to stick it's tongue out at us and up Cameron's arse is risible.

Exactly! Which is statistically......?

Which is, Statistically.....??!

I doubt Scotland would be instantly accepted by the EU, which seems to be something Alex Salmond is assuming - I really wish someone more articulate had taken his place in the debate (I also wish Cameron had turned up for the No side mind you). Salmond is like those old boys in the pub who hold their opinions and that is that, you can throw all the logic and reason you like at them, they'll just stand there smirking with their arms folded and their ears firmly closed.

I'm sure Scotland could go through the process to become an EU member, but they'd have to have answers for some of the questions they don't seem to have answers for yet - primarily the currency question. If all the 'Powers That Be' in England are saying that it can't happen, and that Scotland would be in contravention of EU currency laws, could Scotland just keep the pound anyway? Or what about the groat, could that be the answer?

The one that's best for Scotland. Duh!

Agree statistically.

Did we ever find out what currency union we are going to be part of?

There are some pretty huge assumptions in there oldlady. Firstly that we are even in the eu, which isn't certain especially if things went downhill fast. And secondly that the eu would bail us out -which is by no means a certainly. The principal reason Greece etc were bailed out was that they are in the euro and so could not be allowed to default as it would drag the whole euro down. But we're not going to be using the euro apparently...

My own preference would be a devo-max type thing along the lines of a federal system - more independence than we have at present, with more local accountability, but within a strong UK context. That would give us the best of both worlds in the truest sense and time to build up to independence - or conversely, reject it - but with the benefit of a deeper understanding of the benefits and pitfalls.

In the extremely unlikely event that iScotland becomes bankrupt (we have massive natural resources not enjoyed by Greece or Portugal) we would be bailed out by the EU, just as Greece and Portugal have been, albeit with horrific austerity measures, mass unemployment etc. We would not seek to rejoin rUK, esp if rUK had voted to leave the EU in the interim.

I would like to point out it's not that I think Scotland can't go it on it's own, I'm just concerned that everything is a bit premature at the moment, and that they may be rushing into independance without being completely prepared for it.

Of course Scotland could be a successful independent country, just not with the polocies of the SNP or the Labour party. If you vote yes, then you need to be sure neither of these parties would be in control.
Scotland has run a defecit for 21 of the last 22 years.

I would imagine that a decision to 'reunite ' would have to be subject to a referendum on both sides, rather like joining the eu where each country has to vote to join. So not only would Scotland have to say "can we come back please " and vote for that, I think rUK would have to vote for it too.

Which I think is about as likely as me winning Olympic gold in men's gymnastics!

I think the likelihood of us getting back into the Union are very, very slim/non-existent, which is why it's so important (imo) to have the facts and figures for breaking away set out very, very clearly - something that the SNP haven't (again, imo) done.

No-one seems to know the answer to this one, so I'll ask on this thread and see if anyone might be able to help.

What happens if, and it's a big if but still a possibility, Scotland becomes independant, and then decides a few years down the line that it's a bad idea. What if in a few years time the economy, for whatever reason, is in the toilet and it's bankrupt like Greece, Portugal etc? What happens then if Scotland decides it would have been better off staying? Will the rest of the UK have to accept them back into the Union? Are they allowed to do that? Even if nothing majorly disastrous happens, what happens if five years later everything is disorganised, they're still not EU members, people don't like it, and it's just felt that they'd like to re-join, please.

No, I don't know if any of this is going to actually happen, it's just a question that's been bugging me. I'm English so not voting, obviously, but I think I'd err on the side of No as I don't have a lot of confidence that the Yes side has any safety-net or contingency plans for IF it goes tits up.

Terrible grammar there, but you get my point!

I don't think you can say that anyone who has concerns about high levels of tax isn't altruistic - although I think altruism is easier to subscribe to if you have the financial wherewithal.

As for it not going away - for the sake of democracy (and our collective sanities) it has to - once the majority has cast its vote we need to accept the outcom and move forward, otherwise we will never be fully able to move forward or claim to be a truly democratic country.

*or the majority, rather

Thanks for that reply tabulahrasa. I can see how that must be very frustrating. As a non-Tory voter I hated to see them voted in, but at least I couldn't say they got in against the wishes of everyone in my country!

I'm voting No because for a few reasons -

I don't buy the we have no voice argument. We have one vote each just like every other person in the UK;
We're being asked to agree to a fundamental and irreversible change without knowing the details of that change as they're all subject to negotiation;
I've not been convinced that there will be any significant benefit that's worth the huge expense, disruption and trauma that leaving the union will result in.

Maybe my relatives are just thrawn or altruistic! - I prefer to think the latter, as it ties in with the politics that I was brought up with (which includes having been happy to pay a higher rate of tax/Band G Council tax which is a lot in Glasgow 'cos I believe in public services and that means being taxed in order to pay for them ). My dad is the sort of person who has written to HMRC to say that they calculated wrong and he owed more tax.

Having said that, one of my relatives is now an exile in Monaco as her dh is a millionaire and resents paying any tax. I don't know what her view is as she wasn't at the recent reunion but her husband is a right wing racist prat

"When you say that your politicians have no power in Westminster and your votes are ignored, what incidents do you refer to specifically? I live within throwing distance of London and I don't feel like my voice is listened to either! Isn't that normal to a certain extent?"

Within my lifetime there have been 8 general elections, Scotland has voted for Labour in every one yet the Conservatives have won 5 of them. It's not an individual politics thing, it could be any party, the bit that bothers people is that Scotland votes one way and gets the opposite government anyway.

Then you get things like the 'bedroom tax' a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist in Scotland that more than 90% of Scottish MPs voted against and it passes anyway, then resources had to be used to stop it in Scotland because it just wasn't a beneficial policy.

It's not so much about your individual voice not being listened to, because yes I think everyone feels that, but that a whole country isn't listened to.

I'm not a Nationalist as such, but I do think there are huge issues with how democracy is working when the government is largely decided by an area with different issues and policy is then decided by people representing those areas.

In case anyone's not had enough of this. It's on again tonight on BBC Parliament channel at 7 pm.

If I had a vote I'd vote 'yes'. Alistair Darling really annoyed me with his well you won't be in our gang so you'll sink. And I agree it won't go away. I think it's high time for a split.