<<whispers>> Was there ever any clarification about whether the issue with GF was swearing on here?

I don't like being told not to post because you don't think it's a good idea Bloss. I know you've given us your reasons but it doesn't mean we all have to agree with them. If mumsnet ask me not to post I won't, but they haven't asked people not to post on this thread. And I have learned my lesson, I won't be posting anything remotely inflammatory or libellous.

Of course comments can be deemed personal. You don't have to have a relationship with someone to make a defamatory comment.

You can scrutinise the methods, you can't say, for example, "X is damaging children by advocating we do Y" or "X is a "

But I don't understand (sorry Blu, having another poke) how any comment can be deemed personal when nobody knows her. Surely people are commenting on information that's already out there for public consumption. And if you can't scrutinise the methods of a parenting guru, then you're not doing the best for your child. We all want whats best for them - ideas need to be contested. People can't get uppity when evidence comes out to say this technique or that strategy might be dangerous. New evidence on infant psychology is emerging all the time. Parents and parenting gurus alike need to hear it, not put their fingers in their ears shouting "la, la, can't hear you". Blummin'ek!

Im also of the view that it's best to leave matters alone for the time being.

I've kept out of this so far, but jsut wanted to send my support and tin rattling abilities to the Mumsnet team.

As a GF devotee, who has had many heated discussions on her in support of GF's methods, i do feel this is a very sad situation. I supported ginababe on the original thread, and could completely understand how hurt and upset she was by some of the personal comments that had been madeabout her - we need to remember that parenting gurus are human beings too. However I can honestly say that as an avid reader of GF threads, I have not seen anything since the Ginababe debacle (well until now) that would constitute a personal attack on Ms. Ford - discssions have centred on her methods and have been very well self policed by memebers on both sides of the debate. The recent comments that have not been about her methods have been about her (IMHO) ill-advised decision to persist with legal action against Mumsnet Inc - which seems to have done everyting possible to appease her.

Am amazed that those who are angry about the threat to MN are not prepared to suspend a conversation which, while perhaps interesting, even compelling, can only make things worse for MN.

There's a big difference between having the right to say something and deciding that it is worth saying.

Wordsmith, of course we need to be able to discuss parenting techniques - we just all need to remember that we can't start making libellous comments about people & expect to get away with it!
We had discussions about Gina Ford techniques on here for years before it turned into a personal attack on the woman herself.
I don't like the course of action she has resorted to, I have reservations about her methodology and I very much hope that she and her lawyers are making threats rather than seriously considering taking Mumsnet Ltd to court. However, it is a huge wake up call to all of us that we are responsible for our comments.

oh you'e selling them for free! how very altruistic of you...

you'd make a hell of a lot of money Blu.

lol!

Yes, free speech is extremely important, but there are times when I feel like standing on the corner between two threads shouting "Gercha sharp stick here, free sharp sticks for poking hornets nests! Po-o-o-oke the hornets nest, laydeeees!".

Comment from Justine a while back.

I do think it's worth fighting for and I think free speech is the most important thing.

Yes I have read it all. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the whole thing. And I really don't see why my comment, or MP's, should cause a problem to anyone. How the hell can you police the Internet? It's not just MNHQ that has a problem with that! The libel courts would be clogged up all day if everyone who felt themselves to be libelled on the Internet actually brought a case to court. People, especially children, are damaged daily by images and information that appears on the internet... to put slightly dodgy libel claims in that bracket is laughable.

I agree with StG. I don't like being bullied and railroaded either, and I think free speech is important. However it has been made very clear to us that if we continue to antagonise this person we are gambling not with our own livelihoods/assets but with someone elses - Justine's/Carrie's etc. So to carry on with the "fighting talk" is just plain selfish. And childish.

I'm not being sanctimonious, I've made some of the offending comments myself. But I think it has to stop now!

i agree with much of what you say Bloss - the only thing is you say it is ok to say you think GF's methods may be damaging to children - it is posts along these lines that I have read the most often - and i fear GF objects to any implications along these lines as well as other things.

Have you read all if this thread or do you not care about the position MNHQ are in over this matter?

Morningpaper - I'm completely in your corner!

The fact that this is an open forum on the Internet means we can discuss whatever we like. Beseeching us to shut up is a bit daft! If anything is libellous it should/would get pulled. If the 'system' can't cope with that then the 'system' is at fault, not the posters!

It's a bit like giving kids a box of toys and saying, "here are the toys, but don't play with them, oh no, they're only here to be played with, but don't!"

Mumsnet cannot and should not be able to control or restrain the views of its posters. I repeat, it's an open forum. The sanction of deleting a message or a thread should be used if things get too heavy, but self-policing will never work on an open forum, and neither should it.

Sorry if that sounds a bit anarchic - I am really the most law-abiding person you'll ever meet, but people telling me what to think and how to express myself is like a red rag to a bull.

No it wouldn't matter, Freckle, as long as it really did make it go away. What I meant (but did not explain clearly) was that if someone is throwing their weight around a bit, if they start feeling like they are getting what they want by doing that then often that will make them get worse and worse rather than better.
We don't know what's going on in GF's head (and trying to work it out is what a lot of this discussion is about) so it's anybody's guess what effect this discussion might have on her.

Does it matter if she feels like she's won if it makes all this go away?

On the other hand, I have seen posts on other websites where people have posted about this whole debacle and many of the responses have been "Who is Gina Ford?" Now that's gotta hurt a lot more than anything posted on here.

Anyway, I'm not sure I agree with the theory that the most helpful thing is to stop talking about it. It could just as easily work the other way by making GF feel like she's won.

I think it's helpful to know that Mumsnet is not by any means the worst offender in the obvious 'libel' stakes.

Look I could go on all these threads and start asking whether people's posts were "Helpful"? It's a bit patronising. It's a TALK forum.

Anyway, you revived the thread with your claim that lack of self-restraint from MNers had caused this problem. It had been dead for an hour.

Throws pegbag on floor and storms off

I know it's normal, morningpaper. I'm just asking whether you think it's helpful.

My priority here is to try to get this dispute resolved and Mumsnet secured from threat. I don't think even this 'normal' discussion is going to promote that.

bloss: It is a totally bizarre situation - it's normal for people to discuss it and try to understand it. Especially when they feel it is extremely unfair.