recent decision by MNHQ

Maryz I think a there will be lot of decent christens out there who have knowledge of the workings of the internet will be pretty astounded by the technical fallibility of the proposal too.

That Safermedia bunch appear to be the reincarnation of Mary Whitehouse. Their stated aims make it very clear that they are hoping this will be the thin end of a very large wedge.

Well MNHQ, I do hope you realise that the proposal you're backing will very likely result in your own site being on the blacklist.

The phrase "turkeys voting for Christmas" springs to mind...

Personally, I object to the decision of what I can and cannot view being taken out of mine and DP's hands.

I know there is the 'opt in/opt out' thingy but this is our home and our access which we pay for and which we monitor with our 13yo DS.

There are of course parents who won't/can't be bothered to monitor what their child looks at on the internet but that is the same with everything in life. You have parents that can be bothered and parents that can't.

Where does it go from here?

How much more censorship/control will this give the government over us?

How much further will they take things in the future if they are allowed (by us) to do this.

Whichever way you look at it, it is censorship of what information we can and cannot access.

I think this is wrong.

Maryz if you swear too much you will end up hitting someone..apparently.

The guardian:

"Reactionary forces are shaping the debate on internet porn
Religious campaigners are exploiting concerns over children's sexualisation to push their own agenda "

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/dec/23/internet-porn-religious-campaigners-children-sexualisation

A little low down on the main protagonists of the net block meeting on Monday

Clair Perry and Ed Vasey MP attended a conference held in the house of commons on the 22end of November last year on pornography were she herd Miranda Suit of SaferMedia speak.

Straight after the conference Safemedia (As a political lobby group that seems to have somehow got charitable statues) was officialy lanched, Quote Safemedia post conference round up.
Link to where this can be found www.mediamarch.org.uk/conference2010.htm

".. and we are delighted that Claire Perry MP was so concerned that on the following evening she held an Adjournment Debate in Parliament strongly urging that UK-based internet service providers (ISPs) should implement an opt-in age verification system to gain access to internet pornography ..

The Minister Rt Hon Ed Vaisey MP was sympathetic to the problem of children accessing pornographic, and worse, material on the internet and will be holding a meeting with ISPs and interested parties and charities like ours, so we hope to be involved."

What Miranda Suit confounded of safemedia says about swearing

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3460123.stm

"Swearing has become endemic, and we would say that had happened since it was widely exposed in the media. Certainly the f-word has become normalised.

"What I'm talking about is maintaining standards, thinking about children, thinking about family life and that's where I think we have fallen far short of what the Americans do. It's much easier to bring up a child in America and not be constantly assailed by offensive, unpleasant, downright obscene material. In this country you can't easily bring up a child in that way.

"We do need swear words, they are a useful expression of anger, but they need to be used sparingly. The only real swear word there is now is the c-word, and we don't want that to become normalised. If people have no swear words left, who knows - they might not be able to express their anger and might end up hitting someone."

Miranda Suit is not going to be a MNer then..

PPlentyof, MNHQ have commented earlier on.

I personally believe they have got more insight to the situation from a lot of the posters on here and will be savi enough to be getting more independent technical advice/second opinion on the actual practicality, and resurch other attempts around the world where this has been tried before and failed, as preparation for the meeting on Monday.

If they haven't, Ill be really really surprised.

Wow, how did I miss this? I haven't had time to read the thread but just wanted to add my name to the list of people opposed to this campaign. The sentiment is a good one but these proposals are unworkable and will do more harm than good.

I'll probably have more comments when I've had time to read the thread. I hope MNHQ have commented at some point.

That's fantastic MF -

Interesting to note also

"However BT believes that network-based parental controls "can?t match the functionality offered by PC-based ... software"."

Interesting timing announcing it now - but I wonder which came first - BT's idea (I'm no business person - but I should imagine rolling out a scheme such as this isn't a simple "oh lets do that next month" jobby) - or the initially proposal back in November.

Someone at BT has got their heads screwed on there and I think has covered most of what some of us on this thread have mentioned.

Software available, part of the automatic install, a printed advice booklet, and a major campaign to advertise it.

From ISP revew a ISPreview.co.uk is a independent source of Internet Service Provider (ISP) information

"UK ISP BT has announced that it plans to launch new internet safety advice in March 2011 for parents. The provider will also offer its FREE Family Protection (McAfee) parental-control software as part of an automatic install process for new broadband customers. A major new campaign will be used to highlight the service.

The service is typically included FREE with all BT Total Broadband packages and is part of a wider online security offering, which includes Firewall and Anti-Virus protection. Meanwhile the new advice will supply child internet safety booklets to tens of thousands of new customers. The new booklet will also be available to existing customers upon request"

www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2011/02/04/uk-isp-bt-launches-a-new-range-of-online-and-printed-internet-safety-advice.html

One of the aspect of this that interests me alot is the possibility of this putting ISPs in the position of 'publisher'.

If the burden of cost of doing what is preposed, this will mostly sholdered by the ISPs resulting in sending the smaller ones to the wall.

Then you are left with a few large ISPs influencing what is 'published'

This has implication for the British press.

Night Baroque, Its going to be interesting what Monday brings.

LMAO @ Pissyworld - just make sure you don't do a google search for that to see if anyone else thinks the same and mis-spell it

MF - I hope the person who PM'd you isn't who I think it could be......

I pretend to my self by not having a car it offsets my enormous carbon foot print.I used my printer for hard copy of creative stuff I do.

When ever I hear the music for PC world it always sounds like there singing 'Pissyworld'
Im not very mature.

I think the MN who contacted me today has tried to be a voice of tec reason since this was put to MN last year by the looks.

Someone who under stands these situations and posts well thought out and informed options is a real loss to a public forum like this.(By the way I'm no tecy, I'm more fascinated with the anthropology of digital media, though I did build my PC, sadly the poster that has left was)

Its input like hers that is part of the solution.

Others will too when the filtering shambles kicks off.

I think if MN hasn't been convinced, (Id be very surprised if they haven't sought an independent second opinion or two on the issues brought up on this thread before there meeting Monday) and go ahead and support this, it may finally force me take my self off here and get actually get some work done too.

I think MN is too savi not to properly follow the warnings that they may be walking into a meeting not fully informed of the mechanics and past attempts at what is proposed.

They would look like right nannas if they did.

oh no printing an email that came direct to you is a great idea.

I rarely print - only really do master copies of stuff for church (which then get photocopied - but really a PDF 'aint gonna do much good for the old dears who want to see what's happening during the week ) and the wee kiddies aren't going to be impressed with a PDF file to take home to colour in (the master copies - once photocopied get used for drawing on the other side.........or paper aeroplanes - and then scrunched up intoe a paperball that our cat adores - so I like to think the little bit of printing I do I have, reduced, I reuse x2......and then I pick up the shreds of papers and recycle

Trying to remember the last thing I printed out at home........oh was a google map of some place I Was going - never likely to go again - so wasn't going fork out £5 for a local street map

oh and re your printer......mine is only about 18 months old - so probably got a long life ahead of it - and wasn't a really cheap one either.........but I bought it before I got my laptop and set up my wi-fi (don't worry NetworkGuy - I got that sorted ok ) and now I'm going to have to put up with years potentially of sitting on the floor under my computer desk to print stuff out

MF - I don't know whether we're the same "generation" - but I'm 31, and I know even among my peers there are many who don't have the confidence/knowledge with IT that I do. I only have it because my dad was a computer nut. We had dial-up at home in 1993, before that an old Beeb B at home which we (like the later dial-up) got not long after they were available to buy.

I grew up around computers and used to bunk off school where I was supposed to be going to do my organ practice and go to the internet cafe so although they're mind boggling at times - and I mananged to download filtering software that won't do what I want it to do (downloaded K9 earlier to try it and uninstalled not long after when I discovered you can't use it for multiple windows accounts on one computer ) - I can get by (mostly).

Somewhere to take your device as you say to have it installed free, education for parents (I honestly think that some of the genuinely don't know just how bad some of the stuff available on line is), somewhere that you can get access to a printed (not - "go have a search online) basic guide of "how to". I think are the way forward.

I know I've mentioned it a few times - but even schools doing a one off internet safety and monitoring evening likes ours did would help. Those parents that cared could find out more (as many did at our school).........those that don't care wouldn't think twice about asking to have an ISP filter removed anyhow....