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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

recent decision by MNHQ

508 replies

NetworkGuy · 02/02/2011 23:33

Please, MNHQ, do have a read of this thread and consult your Tech people so they can give you the answers as to whether your support for this campaign and the Minister's plans are worth going on with.

I would hope you not only reverse your position but assuming you get sufficient technical reasoning in 'Plain English', that you go public and explain how unworkable the proposal is likely to be. I feel sure journalists at Computer Weekly and Computing will be able to provide confirmation that filtering is a hiding to nothing and can be very costly because of the millions of GB of data flowing through the bigger ISP networks.

For anyone baffled, and wondering if I'm a nut case, this concerns a proposal to get ISPs to "filter out" all porn, unless a customer "opts in". For numerous technical reasons the idea is never likely to achieve filtering without blocking access to legitimate sites or not blocking access to better than say 95% reliable, thus making it a costly exercise in futility, while parental vigilance and filtering software at the home would still be essential for peace of mind.

(Incidentally the wording of the campaign page implies the parents need to ask, at the same time as someone wanting not to have censored content needs to ask - it is one or other, but not both that would need to contact ISP. )

OP posts:
goldenticket · 03/02/2011 13:24

Yes, it's got Xbox Live. Lordy.

goldenticket · 03/02/2011 13:23

Oh NetworkGuy, give me some credit here! Angry

lessnarkypuffin · 03/02/2011 13:23

You need to pay for 'x-box live' to connect to the internet Goldenticket. Usually an annual payment.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 03/02/2011 13:22

yes - I have the one for Windows 7 (on my laptop_ - but I can't put download the same one for my PC - as it's XP. (presume we're talking about the Windows Live FAmily thing here?? Blush)

goldenticket · 03/02/2011 13:22

They both worry me lessnarkypuffin Sad

What do I need to do with an Itouch? That can access the internet, right? Can I block sites on it/apply parental controls etc?

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:21

Don't know if XBox allows you to browse.

Talking to DC about what is/is not acceptable is still higher up the list, though, surely !

OP posts:
lessnarkypuffin · 03/02/2011 13:20

Cyber bullying worries me a lot more than porn. Facebook, You Tube and video phones combine to create huge potential for harm. There's no way to uninvent them.

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:20

the one (software package) for Windows 7

brought in
MS has brought out the one for Win 7

OP posts:
goldenticket · 03/02/2011 13:20

What do I need to do with the XBox?

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:19

understood Baroque, and it would not get onto a Windows Mobile, or Nokia, or Android phone, from Microsoft, even if Windows Phone (the v7 software) might offer it (don't have one so don't know).

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BaroqueAroundTheClock · 03/02/2011 13:17

brought out what NetworkGuy Confused

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:17

brought

OP posts:
BaroqueAroundTheClock · 03/02/2011 13:17

I don't know - I'm not that tech savy - but I'm not sure why they can't. I mean my (old) Microsoft package (2007) worked on XP and 7.....

Not sure why their family safety filter thing couldn't be made to work on more than just Vista and 7.

I can't afford to update my OS on the PC just so that I can use the same monitoring system on all the computer access point Hmm

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:17

hey - MS has broguth out the one for Win 7 - no point suing a (for once!) "good guy"

OP posts:
NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:16

I agree Baroque, XP and other systems need an equivalent (open source) package, and one would hope it could be achieved pretty much for free to end users, the way we have Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.

Kaloki has suggested such an idea with free distribution by CD (actually a download service would be perhaps better as versions could then exist for devices such as nettops with no CD/DVD drive, and for download into mobile phones - not all have USB even.

OP posts:
goldenticket · 03/02/2011 13:15

Can they?

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:13

Yes, can see your situation, goldenticket, and quite understand that with the plethora of gadgets (some games consoles can also browse web pages, in case you were unaware) all different, it is harder and harder to assure yourself that all of them block porn/ violence/ etc sites.

I guess it is also because the subject matter makes it a bit taboo to discuss, and at what age would you start...

As some have indicated, even having a sleepover at a friend's home can allow access where your own home is hermetically sealed against porn!

OP posts:
BaroqueAroundTheClock · 03/02/2011 13:11

I will will be using XP on the "old" PC (actually built new for me about 2yrs ago - so not really that old) until the thing dies......

Surely it's not without the bounds of technological possibilities to make a Windows Family Safety Live that is compatible with more versions that Vista and 7.

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:06

Of course it would be automated, but as Kaloki put on her Blog page, filtering it at the ISP (the trunk, compared with the twigs, each home) means there's no way to build in exceptions on a 'house by house' basis, all traffic gets slowed down, and it is very costly - with that being passed on to customers.

I think if the 'user by user' basis which Snorbs and Kaloki have mentioned is only on Windows 7 then someone (eg Microsoft) needs to put a similar application together for all those hundreds of thousands still using XP (machines on Ebay every month at 100 quid and less) as old XP machines will find their way to homes when big firms replace all their kit and not everyone can fund a new Windows 7 PC.

OP posts:
goldenticket · 03/02/2011 13:05

"The solution when its comes down to it is personal responsibility and education"

I know I'm responsible and I truly try and do the right thing with issues such as this. All I'm after is some help and yes, to someone like me, what's being proposed sounds great because it is helping me and making my job as a parent easier.

There is so much information out there on every possible subject to do with parenting - vaccinations, nutrition, activities, exercise, discipline etc etc - that I could leave my children to bring themselves up and I'd just about have covered it all by the time they were leaving home Grin. Sometimes it would be nice for someone in authority to say "look, we've done the research for you, this is what you need to do". That's all.

maryz · 03/02/2011 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NetworkGuy · 03/02/2011 13:00

Motherfunster 'personal responsibility and education' is what BadgersPaws, Kaloki and others have been saying all along. So glad you can see that classification and so on is a massive task and prone to error.

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Motherfunster · 03/02/2011 12:57

Mind you it would create a hell of allot of jobs in the pubic sector to get round to classifying what out there, but given a large central government budget and massive amount of manpower it maybe possible only to succeed in classifying a tiny fraction of what?s out there.
Wink

It?s not workable.

That leaves you only with crap filtering that can be politically abused.

The solution when its comes down to it is personal responsibility and education.

KalokiMallow · 03/02/2011 12:55

Now that I would get behind lessnarkypuffin. That would be far more useful.

lessnarkypuffin · 03/02/2011 12:53

I know Goldenticket. I'm not underestimating- I'm not tech savvy myself.

That's exactly where the issue lies. Sell phones with content lock on and let people remove them if they wish, or give a leaflet with clear instructions for parents on how to limit access- not just to porn etc but also to pricey downloads.

How much effort would it take microsoft to add one more pop up warning?

I think that would be a really sensible campaign for MN and very achievable too. Pushing for companies to give clear parent targeted info about how to manage their controls.

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