It's not just us who find Aptamil's campaign thoroughly shameful.

Snafu - NO! I wouldn't have expected that..... I expected the Midwives to see that I was falling apart (since I was crying at the time) and didn't feel I could cope. I certainly didn't expect them to just say "Sigh, Tut, well if you really can't cope then I suppose thats up to you" whilst scribbling their notes down furiously!

Perhaps the Milupa helpline isn't exactly the answer, but an non-bias approach is definitely needed.

Enid - Thats a bit insensitive! So everything you need to know about feeding a baby formula is written on the box?

So if you read the instructions on how to breastfeed then you shouldn't need any support either!!!

I'm talking about proper support..... not instructions on how to mix formula. Many people on MN need advice about feeding even though they use formula don't they?

I'm quite taken aback by that post Enid! So women that formula feed shouldn't get any support?

Well, Toothy, if you regard a nice ex-midwife saying 'Oh no, dear, how rotten for you, never mind, have some of this lovely formula and don't feel bad' as 'balanced', then yes I guess it would be

I'm not taking the pi**, I do think it's outrageous that you were made to feel that way. I just think that what you needed was a more understanding midwife, not a formula company with a 'breastfeeding helpline'...

how do you need support if you decide to give formula?

the instructions are on the box arent they?

Toothache I had lots of tutting, sighing mw's.

That's why they're not suitable to give mothers advice on bf, unless they have also been trained to be bf counsellors.

(My first HV was a fully trained bf counsellor, which is how she could give me support. The one I had with my second child was a bog standard HV who hadn't been trained on bf counselling, so she couldn't give me support.)

Surely by the name "Breastfeeding Counsellor" they are already perceived as bias!
Perhaps they should be called "Infant Feeding Support Counsellors" or such.... do you get what I mean?
The name would've put me off phoning TBH when I felt I needed to stop breastfeeding.

Snafu - It would have balanced it though wouldn't it? A completely baised approach toward breastfeeding was all I got. I was made to feel shocking about it! And no it wasn't all in my head, the midwife really did tut and sigh when I said I was struggling and wanted/needed to give him a bottle.

I lasted longer with dd, but that was because I was more confident and my Mum was around (she breastfed my brothers until they were nearly 2).

The alternative is breast-feeding counsellors, La Leche, NCT breast-feeding counsellors, hospital breast-feeding groups ... they're out there, they really are. And they don't have the vested interest that formula companies have.

The fact you couldn't find them shows how much we need unbiased groups to give support to breast-feeding women. You won't get that from a formula company.

interesting link, thanks milkymouth.

that is a good point Toothache, but the advice should still come from trained health professionals, not from the advertising budget of a multinational food giant. (obviously you didnt get the support you needed )

but she will not now will she!

Well that's why lots of us go on and on and on ad nauseum about the need for properly trained bf counsellors toothache.

Funnily enough, I can't seem to let that subject drop either!!

I'm pointing out the loss to mn.

Exactly. It's bloody awful that bf counsellors can't do it without tuts and sighs and make people scared to ask them for help. But a good bf counsellor shouldn't be doing that - the one I had didn't. She just always said to me: "what do YOU want? Do you want to breastfeed?" And if the answer was yes, then she'd help. (And it wasn't done in such a way that if the answer was no, it meant you were a pariah, iyswim)

Toothache, I think it's a totally fair point that you should have been offered practical, unbiased and compassionate support, of course it is. But it is surely a joke to assume you might get that from a 'helpline' run by a company whose sole purpose is to make money out of selling formula?!

I didn't know about MN then though. SO whats the alternative on offer?

Disapproving midwives and HV's and GP's. Doesn't sound very supportive does it?

Tik Tok would have supported you without tuts and sighs toothy. For free on here.

Now I really wish I'd posted on all those tedious, mind-numbing, irrelevant Big Brother threads that kept appearing on my active convos screen

Oops... forgive me for posting what has probably been posted a million times:

Is it remotely possible that Milupa offer a helpline to help Mums with breastfeeding..... but they also offer advice on what happens if you can't breastfeed? This helpline might just provide the approach that some women need, the approach that It's actually OK to stop breastfeeding if it isn't going well, it isn't a reflection on you as a bad parent? I don't think there are many NCT helplines that would do that.

I for one was crippled with guilt when breastfeeding my ds didn't go well. I was in agony, ds was screaming all night coz he was so hungry, my entire family were abroad on holiday and I felt like a total failure. I was slumped in a deep PND for 18mths after that. Perhaps having a means of getting advice that wasn't all disapproving would have really helped me..... and perhaps given me the strength to keep trying breastfeeding. With the attitude, "Just give it another couple of days, if that doesn't work don't beat yourself up about it..... you can always move him onto formula and get yourself mentally healthy again!"

Noone did that for me. Just got sighs and tuts when I told the midwife I was deeply depressed about the way bf was going.

Not true QoQ. They may just look around for other sites.

TBH I remember working on a pitch for Milupa (this had all been blissfully erased from my memory until the last few days) and they genuinely did want to promote bf. The idea being that those who "wanted" to give up, would turn to Aptimil, and those who could sort their problems out with the help of their helpline, would have a warm and fuzzy feeling about Aptimil and recommend it to their non bf friends and buy the other products, such as jars, when the babies are older. Also may consider them for mixed feeding and in the future for other babies.

It wasn't a theory based on "let's get as many mothers as poss to use our formula" - they're not so unsophisticated as that - it's based on "if we help them with their feeding problems, even if it's not a short term gain for us, the work we're doing in terms of long-term brand values, is an investment". They're not stupid enough to want to risk their brand by being associated with the sabotage of breastfeeding. Which is what will happen to them if they don't sort their helpline out.

And of course, it's also a strategy based on an ignorance of the realities of bf. After all, why should a marketing director know anything about its complexities? And since then, they also appear to be going in for this aggressive loophole advertising.

The whole reaction to this ad is interesting... rather than the reason behind it.

Interesting link from over on another thread -Baby Feeding Law Group -referrign to current M A campaigns and highlighting the Independent and Mumsnet itself. To quote :

"However, the advertisement still promotes the full range as all bear the Aptamil name and are similarly packaged, as shown below. The case of Birmingham Trading Standards v Wyeth/SMA in 2003 established that it is not necessary to explicitely refer to the infant formula to be in breach of the law. In any case, follow-on milks are breastmilk substitutes and their promotion is prohibited by the International Code "

Is the Internet governed by UK law (if site UK registered) or the International Code of Practice ?

Fair enough, mumtosomeone. But you appear to be complaining about the fact that we are expressing our opinions as well ... you said "let it drop" so I assumed that you have no interest.

I like to see your opinions. maybe i will pick up something that makes me interested?!

Is there an inflamatory ad on the Mumsnet Homepage? Why wasn't I aware of this?

Pah.

This isn't actually rehashing anything at all - this is a new link and a new twist, and I'm another one who is interested to see that it's been picked up by other parties. I hadn't seen the link on the other thread, and I for one was interested to see it. Maybe now that the media have picked up on this, something will be done to stop this cynical marketing ploy.

I agree that if you don't like the topic, there are plenty of others to talk about - if you're not interested in a subject, why keep clicking on it? Plenty of us are interested enough to want to know more - you can see by the subject title that you won't like it, so it's easy enough to avoid.