It's not just us who find Aptamil's campaign thoroughly shameful.

Enid - But what about breastfeeders who need to switch to formula for whatever reason? What label do you give them?

the fact is that EVERYONE can bottle feed

not everyone can breastfeed because is is harder to do and thats why breastfeeders need more support.

Enid - I was given lots of diagrams of how to position a baby at the breast too!! Whats that got to do with it.

As a 13 yr old with her 1st period I saw lots of diagrams of how to insert a tampon..... it was still a lot harder than the diagram.... and took confidence too.

The fact that support for those who want to breast-feed but are struggling is so difficult to come by in the NHS is appalling, and I think that it's one of the reasons that the formula companies are (cynically, imo) starting these helplines - they have seen that support is sometimes hard to come by and are exploiting that fact.

What needs addressing is the fact that support is only available if you know where to look for it. Midwives and HVs, who are the people that women turn to in these situations, need to be offering support however women chose to feed - and they often don't. They also need to be aware of the various support groups who can help with continuing to breast-feed for those who want it, or to help come to terms with not being able to feed.

The NHS is appallingly bad at this in a lot of areas of the country, and it's a crying shame.

ah they obviously didnt read the box

there is a diagram on there of how you do it

and you can position a bottle badly seen it done!!!

going now.
Toothache sorry you never got the support you needed!
Glad it all worked out for you!
Enid go have a cuppa and chill for a bit.
See you all later

No Aloha. I'm saying in my experience and that of my friends too. Sigh is right.

I tried the MW and the HV because at the tender age of 23.... first baby.... inexperienced and frightened.... no access to the internet.... I didn't KNOW there was anyone else. Noone even pointed my in the direction of any other support..... until I found MN when ds was 18mths old!

Only trying to offer the perspective of someone who wanted to bf, couldn't, and was offered no further support to deal with that.

well exactly

you've rather made my point

Enid you dont get empty breasts!!

thats nice wordsmith

do you mean us or toothache are disappearing up our own arses?

I have seen both Mears and Tiktok be very supportive to mothers who couldn't breastfeed for whatever reasons.
It seems to me, Toothache, that you didn't get any proper support to either breastfeed successfully - ie without pain or struggles, or with a decision to stop or with your general unhappiness and depression.. ie just poor support all round. Not really to do with breastfeeding per se.

EMOTIONAL SUPPORT. Thats it.
Help to feel adequate whether it's bottle or breast.

I want to be a midwife and one of my motivations is the feeding issue (and PND). I want every Mum to realise that they can try to breastfeed, they might enjoy it! They might be great at it! They might take great satisfaction in doing it...... but if not, they tried (with the proper support from me as a MW) and there is no use in ending up so depressed that you can't function properly..... which is how I ended up. Feeling like an incredible failure and nobody in the medical profession felt compelled to make me think otherwise.

It was different with my dd (2nd baby).

This discussion seems to be going round in circles and dsappearing up its own a**e

sigh

the DECISION of whether to go on with bf or bottle feed is incredibly hard I agree, and it would be lovely to have unbiased support at that stage

my comment was that I can't understand (genuinely) where the PROCESS of bottle feeding (ie mixing it up, putting it into bottles, giving it to your baby) is hard. Wherease with bf, the supply is hard, knowing whethere your breasts are full or empty is hard, knowing whether you are producing too much or too little foremilk is hard, the latch is hard, the positioning is hard...shall I go on

That's where bf counsellors come in. They always ask: "What do you want to do? Do you want to continue to bf?"

I think it was Mears who posted a tale a while ago about someone she went to see who was absolutely desperate, and the advice Mears gave her was to switch to formula. Because M could see, that that woman wanted to formula feed. Not that she was desperate because she wanted to breastfeed but couldn't, but that she wanted to be given "permission" to ff, without judgementalism and condemnation.

And afaik, Mears did it without any tutting or sighing!!!

Who do you think should be giving you that? And who did you try?
You seem to be saying that all HVs and midwives push breastfeeding, but that is a million miles from the experience of many, many of us on this site. Including me. I've actually stayed away from my HV because I know that otherwise exclusively breastfeeding to six months would involving arguing with her. Nearly all of them want to see formula top ups and baby rice practically from birth IME.

support in general is needed!!
Comments like its on the box really are unhelpful!!!

Aloha - So what your saying is if I am feeling that I can't cope with breastfeeding and want non bias support then I should phone a the number on the formula box..... even if I haven't bought any formula yet????

I suppose I'm talking about the need for a non bias non-judgemental approach to DECIDING what to do when you really are feeling distraught?

Um, if I recall correctly, there are 'careline' numbers on all the formula boxes as well, with people paid by the formula companies to answer queries about formula feeding.
I think it's worth remembering that the vast majority of people giving advice on breastfeeding do so for free, because they are passionate about it, and believe in it.

where am I buzzing!!

Rearing a child isn't Rocket Science either..... but when I posted that I was suffering with PND and struggled to cope with my baby nobody posted that!! People posted that I needed support.... and so I did.... Lots of it, which I found through MN and my GP.

WWB - Thats exactly what I mean.... I would've thought that MN'ers would have realised that! I wasn't looking for instructions in how to shove a bottle in a babies mouth. Sheeeeeesh Enid, a debate is one thing, but that was a bit strange. I have bottlefed and breastfed too..... doesn't make the night feeds any easier to cope with..... or colic...... or feelings of inadequacy etc etc.

what?

Exactly what I was thinking Jools.

of course some bfing mums need intensive support, I'm not denying that! It's more the lack of support for ff-ing mums I am decrying. Ffmums on this site are sometimes made to feel that they will be responsible for stunting their child's growth, failing to protect them againt cancer, making them intolerant to dairy products, making them less intelligent etc etc. All arguments I have seen posited here. That sems to be to be the very opposite of support.

mts, but you are buzzing round like a demented wasp inflaming perfectly calm discussions! Calm down!