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Original poster

Is BTEC Applied Science Yr 9/Double Science GCSE ok?

34 replies

Mima1 · 29/06/2010 21:24

Hi - this is my first ever question so apologies if I get the protocol wrong! I have 3 chn and f/t job so never had time to use Mumsnet except look odd thing up but now stuck with Year 8 son's science options and thought someone might have been through this before.

Son is technically in Year 8 but school promote to Year 9 curriculum after Whitsun. Children have been already been set as Year 9 for Maths, English, Science, Languages and PE. He used to be quite good at Science (5+ at KS2) and is still very interested but since starting secondary has erratic test scores (due to fluctuating levels in revision I think). He has been told is doing an 'accelerated Applied Science BTEC course in year 9 followed by Double Award Science GCSE in years 10 and 11'. Part of the year group is doing 'triple science' but he is not eligible as his level (after 2 years of secondary) is still 5+.

I have spoken to his science teacher who says science is not a subject where knowledge builds unit by unit so it is not unusual not to make any progress in terms of NC levels. But because he has not reached Level 6 he cannot do triple sciences. She feels it is better to get 2 A's or B's via this BTEC/Double GCSE route than 3 C's via traditional GCSE's. In fact the BTEC is done at the end of Yr 9 (next summer - when some chn in the class will still be 13)then they have two years to do the Double Science so they can end up with 4 Science GCSE's rather than 3.

If anyone has stayed with me this far, my question is...is this actually better for my child and will he still be able to do Science A'Levels if he wants to or is it a way of maximising the school's value added or average point scores. I don't want to be cynical just work out whether I need to support him in swapping now. School have not offered swap and even if does well by end of Year 9 it is not possible to swap onto three GCSE's at that stage.

We don't get any info on other GCSE options until next year so I feel a bit in the dark about it all. Do I need to worry?!!

I have seen other threads on BTEC and Double Science but not on taking together. Apologies if I have logged this in the wrong place!

Any views much appreciated!

OP posts:
circular · 30/06/2010 08:15

Our DDs school do triple in two years but it is at the expense of another option - often a language as this is no longer compulsory. But as this is just top sets, I would imagine they would have covered much of the core science. Also, AFAIK the " triple" involves separate GCSEs in physics , chemistry and biology.

As for the OPs issue, I would check that the double really is two proper gcses, not just equivalents. It needs to be gcses yo be allowed to go onto A level. Although, having technically coveted only two thirds in each subject, it may be necessary to have extra tuition in the required A level subjects. This recently happened to a friends DC wanting to take A level biology after 2 gcse science.
As for the underacheiving bit, I think it's a bit of a yr 8 thing, and also the boys messing about more. My DD is always complaining that in top set maths & science, the boys are always disruptive - and it's often the very bright ones being the worst offenders.

snorkie · 30/06/2010 07:33

Some schools do do triple in two years in a double option slot for their most able sets by the way, but it's very rushed to get through the work and often requires a few lunchtime or after school sessions on top.

snorkie · 30/06/2010 07:30

The GCSE predictions may have been done on CAT scores rather than SATs results. CATs are often done on entry to secondary school and can I think assign different target grades to different subjects according to how well you score on the various subsections. Supposedly they test raw ability whereas SATs test achievement so far.

'Double Award Science' is an outmoded name for Science/Aditional Science but which is still in common use. The two are broadly the same although the structure has changed slightly. The key difference is that with the old Double Science Award both GCSE grades awarded were the same (ie: BB or AA etc) whereas with the new system you get a separate grade for Science and another, not necessarily the same grade for Additional Science (eg: AA, AB or BB are all possible).

Triple can be done in two years but only if it is allocated more timetable space than many schools offer (ie the extra GCSE takes away another option). Until recently many schools didn't offer triple as it left students with a more restricted range of other options at GCSE but it has come back into vogue recently and schools are supposed to offer it to their more able students. To get around the timetabling problems this causes with the GCSE option blocks a lot of schools start the science GCSE course a year early (as your school is doing) so that the triple science group have three years of a double option slot to learn the course, effectively doing one GCSE per year (although they won't be certificated until the end). They will complete the 'Science' GCSE work in year 9, the 'Additional Science' work in year 10 and the extra bits needed on top to turn it into triple in year 11. That's why it won't work to join that group in year 10: your ds would have missed out on the 'Science' coursework and exam modules (though to be fair I'd have thought the BTEC would have some overlap with the work and the exams can be sat at any stage over the three year course and indeed can and often are resat several times).

MmeRedWhiteandBlueberry · 30/06/2010 07:23

I think the school is reasonable in doing triple science over three years. It allows those children to get greater depth without having to drop another option subject.

If they are filling that slot on the timetable for everyone else with BTEC then that also sounds reasonable, although I personally would prefer them to keep a language going and do an ASSET exam in it. Year 8 is very early to be dropping subjects.

Original poster
Mima1 · 30/06/2010 06:40

Lovely to get all these responses - everyone is so busy so thank you all for taking time out to give me such detailed replies. And no, didn't notice any typo's...too excited to get replies!!

I guess school background (popular state school, reputedly academic) and son's personality (great marks if he tries but incrediby lazy, scruffy presentation etc) have an effect here too. I can't say he's bright or academic (sorry!); more middling. From what he does at home, effort is very erratic (homework is like blood from a stone!), not sure if this is feature of boys or age 12/13 or both! Most of the children I read about on Mumsnet are very bright or special needs so must google the middle ones to get motivational tips! Am constantly trying but any new ideas appreciated!

Maybe the BTEC route is to shake the children up a bit by giving them an exam/mark while still in Year 9 so they work harder on the real GCSE's (Maam Ruby's point about evaluation of BTec makes sense). I do understand the bit about 2 good grades being better than 3 average ones and am going to check with school whether the two GCSE's are Science/Additional Science. The 'Double Award Science' bit is copied from school letter so possibly not. Letter also says he is part of a target group to improve attainment at Year 11 and mentions vocational qualifications so a bit worried now about what we will be presented with come the rest of his options in Year 9. I also don't understand why secondary school ability has little relation to KS2 SATS (English KS2 was 5- but school have set target for GCSE as A-A*. Science was KS2 5+ but secondary target says 2 Grade C at GCSE).

What I don't understand though is that if I get him to pull his socks up and his marks to match his interest/understanding, the teacher says he can't swap to triple science at end of Year 9 as it is too much to do three sciences in two years. Most schools only choose options then and surely GCSE's are designed as two year courses... so not sure why.

I can see triple science in 2 years is a tall order and why schools might pick top classes to do this but at this school the selected children get 3 years to do it which I would have thought makes it more accessible to wider ability range.

I am sure lots of 13 yr old boys are a bit lazy but wondering whether realisation dawns when they start GCSE and they pick up later. If not then I guess the 'pathway' that the school have chosen is ok. If they do, then they are already on a course that seems to limit scope & much earlier than other schools.

Also until choose rest of options next year, not sure of direction of rest of timetable. Son not fantastic at languages so without much science might just leave art/humanities which are great but not much balance. Is it normal to make science choices so early without chance to re-evaluate at end Yr 9??

OP posts:
MaamRuby · 29/06/2010 21:49

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cat64 · 29/06/2010 21:46

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cat64 · 29/06/2010 21:46

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MmeRedWhiteandBlueberry · 29/06/2010 21:32

I would avoid BTEC if your son is bright. It does not open doors.

I am concerned that your school is talking about 'double science' - there is no such thing.

Your son will not realistically be able to do A-levels from B-Tech, but can from Science/Additional Science. Triple Science is a bonus. A-level courses say that they take over from Sci/Add Sci and do not require triple.

For your son, it is better to have good grades in Sci/Add Sci rather than mediocre grades in triple. B-tech grades are not worth much to an otherwise academic child. B-techs may be worth more to the school, which is probably why they are pushing them.

From what you have said, I would fight for the middle course - Science in year 10 and Additional Science in year 11.