Is BTEC Applied Science Yr 9/Double Science GCSE ok?

I've taught chemistry, science and maths in an 11-18 comp for 6 years and I know that the range of science qualifications these days is bewildering! Roll on the government review and some simplification........

Thanks, kritur, it sounds like you know your stuff.

If your dc isn't sure about studying science A-levels then traditional double science (core + additional science) is fine, it keeps the option open if they do change their mind. It's quite common for kids to take one science alongside other options at A-level nowadays so worth keeping the option open. It's also quite common for them to change their minds, we had one decide halfway through Y12 he wanted to be a doctor despite studying no sciences..........

So, if you know your dc is definitely not going to go for science A Levels, would it be ok to go for double science? At ds's school they strong-arm the more able pupils into doing triple science, but for the non-scientists, surely it would be better to bite off less and have a better chance of a top grade.

Thanks for posting that Kritur. It was really clear and helpful.

This seems to still be a contenious issue for many people so it is probably time for an update as o what everything is and the implications.

Triple science GCSE - the most to easy understand. 3 separate GCSEs in biology, chemistry and physics with the grades being individual for each. Lots of schools now start this in Y9 because it doesn't always get a decent time allocation in KS4. Leads onto A-levels in biology, chem, phys etc (usually criteria is a B in the subject for progression to A-level) as well as the other post-16 options like A-level applied science, BTEC level 3. Students achieving L6 at KS3 should be given the opportunity to study triple sciences but these are only recommendations and not legally enforceable.

Double award options..........

Science + additional science - A traditional course combining biology, chemistry, physics but with the equivalent modules of 2 GCSEs. Grades awarded separately so can be different for the science part and the additional science. Progresses to all A-level and BTEC level 3 routes but for A-levels in pure sciences the college looks for a B in the additional science component usually.

Science + applied science - A general science course with the second award being more based on work related contexts. The 2nd GCSE the 'applied' GCSE usually has more coursework than a traditional course (approximately 50%). Rarely accepted as suitable for progression to pure science A-levels but can progress to A-level applied science (which isn't a bad course by the way, very good for potential nurses, primary teachers who just want a bit more science) or BTEC level 3.

Double award applied - Same as above but both awards are in a workplace context and have a larger coursework content. Same progression as above.

Single award.........

Many schools will enter lower ability students for the compulsory core science GCSE but some will just automatically use the BTEC route. No progression to A-level pure sciences, some colleges will accept for A-level applied science if they get a C or BTEC level 3.

BTEC - 100% coursework assessed. Can be equivalent to 1 or 2 GCSEs at level 2, pass, merit or distinction (equivalent to C, B, A GCSEs). No progression to A-levels in pure sciences, possible progression to A-level applied science in some colleges, usual progression is to BTEC level 3 but this is not commonly accepted by universities as suitable for entry. My word of caution in this is that it is not particularly respected as currently all work is assessed internally and there have been cases of students gaining credit where work does not exist, is copied or even done in a week. This has all weakened the position of BTEC although there are moves to strengthen the external assessment. It isn't accepted for progression as the mode of delivery in many schools means students retain very little understanding of the science after they have completed the task required to get the mark. Most schools use it as a way of getting a C equivalent double award out of students who wouldn't get that at GCSE although this is likely to change very soon as it isn't counted in EBacc and we are still awaiting the decision on the double science quality indicator.

OCR nationals - v similar to BTEC.

A few other things you might be bombarded with by schools..........

Level 1 qualification - Equivalent to GCSE grades G-D
Level 2 qualification - Equivalent to GCSE grades C-A*
Level 3 qualification - Equivalent to A-level grades E-A*

Hope this helps a few people.

I teach BTEC level 2 (different subject) and some people are of the mind set that as it is currently 100% coursework based then it is not as good as GCSEs and for sure, if students are going to do traditional A levels then it is better for them to do GCSEs as the learning/assessment styles are similar. However, BTECs are vocational and set the theory learning into a vocational setting and this does make it easier for students to understand what they have learnt/why they have learnt it and apply it.

Just to show that BTEC learning is not below standards; I entered some of my BTEC level 2 students (start of year 11) to the first unit of the AS in the subject and with no additional learning (other than a short revision sessions) the grades back were 75% of them achieving a D whilst the rest acheived a C.....

Ok I am totally confused! I got a letter at the begining of the holidays saying that my son has been selected to follow the Btec Applied Science pathway when he goes back in year 9. This will lead to the award BTEC First Certificate which is equivalent to 1 GCSE, then he will complete either a BTEC Diploma in Applies Science (which is equivalent to 4 GCSE's) or move on to the GCSE Pathway and gain 2 gcse's in Science. The last bit was copies word for word-how can this not then be worth anything as a lot of you are saying?

If that's all he was doing, I'd advise away from the BTEC. While they can be good for vocational subjects, it doesn't really give a good impression if you d a BTEC instead of a GCSE.
However, as he is doing double science later on, it can only help him.
At my school, I was in the top stream doing Triple Science. The majority of the Year did Double Science, and a small group of lower ability pupils did Single or Applied science or something.
Double Science is certainly sufficient, and the only advantage Triple Science gives you is having already been taught some stuff if you carry it on to A-Level.
I actually wish I'd done Double, because I got two As for the first two modules in Chemistry, but a disastrous result in the third. Had I done Double Science I'd have an A, but now I have a lower result.
AA in double gives a better impression than ABB in Triple, for example.
Anyway, I wouldn't press to have your son put in Triple Science.
Unless he'll get bored possibly covering the same stuff twice, then the BTEC can't hurt as an extra. It'll also be something to fall back on if the GCSE doesn't go as well as he'd hoped.

My daughter was at a school which let very few pupils do gcse science at a level they found they were not able to do biology or chemistry a level even though thts what they wanted At the sixth form college acourse for applied sciense was put in for them but after just a couple of years theyve stoped the course It wouldnt be so bad if it was actually about which course best suits your child in our experience it was about the school getting more points in the league tables

Thanks for that perspective scarymamma. However, I'm not entirely sure when you say "doing the BTEC is not going to adversely affect his/her future in anyway". If a child may want to take a science level then my understanding is they need to have done science + additional science GCSE - is that not the case?

Hi I teach BTEC Applied Science at both level 2 (GCSE equivalent) and level 3 (A Level equivalent) as well as standard GCSE's and AS/A Level chemistry and I take some exception to people saying the BTEC is 'not worth the paper it's written on'. It's a level 2 qual so counts towards GCSE scores. It is all coursework so if your ds/dd is having difficulty applying themself to his/her revision then it might be worth considering. The BTEC Applied Science covers all the 3 sciences, giving a good grounding in the basic knowledge (atoms, molecules, forces, cells etc..) plus has an application (science in the work place/industry/society) and skills base (experiments 'n stuff). If he/she applies himself to his coursework, pays attention in class and is quite bright he/she should be able to achieve a distinction. It's not a walk in the park and there is a lot of coursework but if you do it consistently, that is, when you get given it, it is perfectly manageable.
Them doing the BTEC is not going to adversely affect his/her future in anyway - if exams don't suit him/her as a learner then a good BTEC will do them far more good than a crappy GCSE if they can't knuckle down to revision/struggle with exam situations. All qualifications require some level of input from the learner - as with most things in life you get out of them what you put in (sorry to rant but a little fed up of students who just think all the have to do is turn up each week and they'll pass!)

Hi, This is the first time I have posted anything but my son is in year 10 doing triple science so I have some experience of this issue. All of year 10 take core science where they cover modules in the 3 sciences and all of year 11 take additional science where again they cover modules in all 3 sciences. My son goes to the same lessons as the rest of his year but then has 2 extra lessons a week (one double and one single) where they cover one extra module in each of the 3 sciences. He also needs to do 3 practicals (known as ISAs) instead of 2. At the end of year 10, he is about 2/3 through the extra triple science requirement already. I would say that triple science is not really harder, there is just more of it. After taking all of the compulsory subjects, my son was allowed 3 choices of subjects and taking triple science used one up. I think that triple sciences are much more highly regarded than the other options and unless your son is particularly keen on other subjects I would push for the triple option.My son took Geography and French as his other options so still has a balance. Another idea would be to find out which exam board your school use for Science. Ours use AQA and then you can look on the internet for the full course specification and see for yourself what is involved. All of the Science exams are taken in short modules which are usually covered in one terms work so although revision is really important, any work examined will have been done in class fairly recently. Hope this helps and does not cause further confusion. Good Luck !

And to the OP - the consequence of the BTEC followed by the GCSE is that they will be covering the same stuff twice. On the one hand it's consolidation, on the other it's "we've done this before" - switch off. It's not a route I'd take with my students, although it does play the numbers game very well. And we would let any student with 2Bs in Core and Additional Science, or a B inthe relevant individual Science plus two other Cs do A level Science. But check it out with the school. And find out his target grade.

What level is she working at? We wouldn't enter a child for BTEC if they could get a good GCSE grade.

But apparently for some schools it's Triple Science or BTEC.

Hello there, can anyone help me out? my daughter has come home with a letter saying she is going to be doing btec science course in yr 9, 10 , 11. I dont feel happy about it as she is doing really well with her grades although she doesnt like exam situations. Can I object and insist that she be allowed to take a science GCSE, when we recently went to a parents evening this wasnt mentioned to me and I was told that Science, maths, english and R.E were compulsory GCSE's !!! please help

Our school say you have to do triple if you want to do science A levels

I agree with violetqueen please could someone-possibly kritur- please explain to me what core+ additional and core +applied and double applied actually means? My daughter is currently in Y8 so will have all this to come to next year. She is currently in top sets and in her school she studies Chemistry, Biology and Physics as three seperate subjects - a double lesson in each subject every week.

How parents can follow all this amazes me .
I sometimes think the schools want us to be confused .
Then they don't have to deal with parents querying the decisions they've made .

If what he's being offered is Science + Applied Science GCSEs or double Applied Science GCSEs (I'd not actually heard of that one before), then I'd be tempted to make a fuss and try and get him into the triple group or at least a Science and Additional Science group (if one exists) as otherwise he'll be restricting his choices for A level - and if he doesn't like languages he may well want a science.

Good info, kritur

OK, I'm a science teacher so might be able to clear a few things.

BTEC - not worth the paper it's written on, no exam. Unless he follows a BTEC route throughout (eg, by taking BTEC level 3 post-a6) it'll barely even be looked at. That said it'll bank the school a grade for him however there is now a new rule where 40% of the award needs to be submitted in Y11 so I think they may be jumping the gun here.

You need to clarify what the 'double science' being offered is. It could be core + additional (fairly traditional, leads onto A-levels in all 3 sciences), it could be core + applied (does not lead to 3 sciences) or double applied.

Only then will you be able to make an informed decision.

L5 at KS3 after L5 at KS2 is not unusual. The L5 at KS2 was on 12 topics, at KS3 they cover 36 topics. To be honest, many primary schools do coach towards that test which is easy on so few topics. I know we often get grades where you wonder how on earth the kids sat in front of you achieved it.

Hope this helps