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Secondary Appeal

112 replies

gillybean2 · 18/06/2010 10:19

My ds's secondary school appeal is on Monday and I'm after some help please! If you can help on any of the issues below, or give me any further arguments I can bring up, I would very much appreciate it. This is long I'm afraid, hope you can make it to the end...

  1. I understand that I am meant to be given 10 working days notice of the appeal and that the admissions authority case must arrive no later than 7 working days before the hearing.

I did tick the box of the form saying I agree to less than 14 days notice of the appeal hearing. However I assumed I would get notification and then if an earlier date was available I would be informed of this.
But I have been waiting for months for details!
The school advised several weeks ago (after me asking) that appeals would probably be held on 21&22 June and confirmation of this would be sent. So they knew this date ages ago. Why did they then choose to wait till a week to go before officially informing me!

Secondly I spoke to the school again last week as had not received anything. They assured me the authority had sent it out. I actually received the documents on Monday 14th, and our appeal date is on Monday 21st.
How strongly can I argue that they have not fulfilled their requirements of 7 working days notice, and therefore have not followed procedure and my ds should get a place as a result!?

  1. The statement from the admissions authority states the total capcity of the school is set at 1248, and numbers in any one year group is 216. They then list the current and expected numbers for each year as follows: Yr 7 216 Yr8 214 Yr9 217 Yr10 195 Yr11 216 Sixth Form 206 (112+94) Total 1264

I know they have had to accept a child who have won an appeal in the past (the friend coming with me won her ds's appeal). And the numbers show (Yr9) that they can accomodate an extra child.
So on a year by year basis, and given they've set a precedent in the past, I am arguing that they can clearly accomodate an extra child.

The sticking point is that they are over their total capacity numbers. However this is because of the sixth form.
How should I tackle this?

Last year the sith form numbers were 171 (98+73). So the children moving up has gone down from 98 to 94. All the extra children are moving into the 6th form this year. In accepting so many extra sixth formers they have put themselves over their total capacity.

I calculate thet Yr 7 to Yr 11 at 216 students is 1080. As total capacity is 1248 they should only have 168 students in the sixth form. But they are taking in 206 in september!

So I'm thinking that the over subscribed sixth form has no relevance on an individual lower class taking one extra child.

Also I understand that school's get extra money for sixth form student's. So the school have choosen to go over capacity. They would not be if it was not for extra in the sixth form. Given that they are taking on that many sixth formers it leads me to assume the over capacity issue is either a non issue, or is not relevant to sixth form.

They then list general issues associated with excessive numbers as follows:

  1. Most classrooms are quite small and putting more than 27 in a class makes it very crammed & in some cases would be a health and safety issue.

** My arguments
a) You've done it before, and are currently.
b) Very cramped seems an overstatement. The agreed admitance is set at 216 so your classes must be able to adequately accept that number.
c) You must have considered the health and safety issues before as you have a class of more than 27 in year 9 already and have accepted that any risk is acceptable.

  1. Catering facilities are restricted and this results at congestion in eating areas at lunch & break times. In addition, time taken to provide in-house food for all students who require it, means that students are late for their afternoon lessons.

** My arguments
a) My ds is vegetarian and prefers to bring his own packed lunch to school. He will therefore have no impact on in-house food provision and will not be late for afternoon lessons.
b) Anyone who is late will not have been affected by my ds being there.
c) My ds will be eating his packed lunch right away, thus freeing up space in the eating area quickly allowing those queuing for food to have his seat back relatively quickly (sooner than they would get their dinner from the sounds of it).

  1. School lacks communal areas for students to congregate. Result is students spend much of lunch & beak times outside. Excessive student numbers leads to pressure on the management of lunchbreak.
    ** My arguments
    a) Yr 7 have their own outdoor area for break times. One more child in this area, particularly a well behaved child like my ds, will not be a burden on management of lunchbreak.
    b) IMO, where possible children should be encouraged to be outside at break time, so how is it a problem that they are outdoors?

  2. As a result of high overall numbers, the use of teaching rooms is extremely high. Results in some subjects having to use non-specialist rooms, eg library. And some subjects are taught in non-specialist areas eg science. This indicates that shortage of teaching space is not in one particular area, but is a general problem caused by the additional pressures resulting from excessive students in school.

** My arguments
a) The excessive students are entirely as a result of sixth form.
b) One additional child in a class will not have any affect on this issue. The class would already have had to use a non specialist area. Therefore this argument does not prejudice the other children if my child is accepted.
c) You have an additional child in Yr 8 (going into Yr 9), so you have already worked out how to accomodate an additional child in one clasee when necessary.

It summaries with a note:
Whilst we are sorry to have to deny your child a place, the inclusion of your child into a year group that is full would prejudice the efficient use of resources and the quality of education to students at school.

** My argument would be that one additional child in a year group would not unduly prejudice the rest of the students in that year group, for the reasons stated above.

If you made it this far I thank you! If you have then I am hoping that you can also help with advice or additional arguments please.

Many thanks
Gilly

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 01/07/2010 12:03

Cory - The issue is that the school shouldn't have invited people to the induction day unless they had places. To do so raises expectations of a successful appeal. I can't guarantee that the LGO would come down on Gillybean's side in this case but it is certainly worth a try.

Gillybean2 - I would mantion the induction day issue as well. It certainly won't do your case any harm.

gillybean2 · 01/07/2010 08:04

I have re read the appeal letter thoroughly now and have also looked up the relevant paragraph that admission quotes above and think I agree with that route. They have only given a very brief summary of some of the relevant factors (namely the prejudice) and they haven't given clear and detailed reasons for the panel?s decision, addressing the key questions that the panel considered. Or maybe they have but I don't see any that relate to issues I raised so can't see that they've considered my ds's individual case.

The question is should I focus on that, or bring in the induction day issue as well?

The most striking thing in the letter is that the heading is correct but in the first paragraphit refers to the "Independant Appeal Panel constituted by (xyz) school on 21st June...". The school it states is NOT the school we are appealling. Presumably this is a silly typo by the person typing the letter, but can I use that at all?

Any help greatfully appreciated!

In more detail the relevant sections of the letter state as follows:

The Panel was unanimously satisfied that the school's published admissions arrangements, as administered by the Local Authority, (name of), comply with the mandatory requirements of the School Admissions Code and Part 3 of the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998 and that they were applied correctly in this case.

The Panel was unanimously satisfied that prejudice to the provision of efficient education and efficient use of resources, as defined in Section 86 paragraph 3 (a) of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998, would result if your child were admitted to the school, namely the the school is over subscribed. The Panel was not satisfied that your resons for wishing your child to be admitted to the school were sufficient to outweigh this.

After careful consideration of all the arguments, which you and the Authority put forward, the Panel unanimously decided not to allow your appeal for admission to the (correct name) School.

OP posts:
penguin73 · 01/07/2010 07:37

'However I received a letter this week saying that the headteacher had reconsidered and would now like to invite ds to the induction day and I could attend the parents bit that evening too if I wanted. It did also say if we didn't then they would arrange an alternative date should our appeal be successful' I think that is where any appeal will fall down - the Head has clearly indicated that your place is dependent on a successful appeal.

Whilst I sympathise as a teacher and mother I have major issues with large class sizes - very detrimental to teaching and learning in my experience.

admission · 30/06/2010 23:47

What an interesting letter on your appeal. All those unanimously agreed decisions, when panel clerks are told that they should not put in anything like that - it should just be the panel's decision was. What do you put when it is 2 to 1 decision? Sorry the panel were hopelessly divided but you lost out! Not good practice.

I would also say that they have failed to adequately inform you of the reasons for the appeal not being succesful. What the admission appeal code says in paragraph 2.38 is the letter must (so it is legal requirement) contain a summary of the relevant factors that were raised by the appellant and considered by the panel, along with any legal advice. Also give clear and detailed reasons for the panel's decisions, addressing the key questions that the panel considered. When I as a panel member make a decision I have to justify that decision based on the evidence presented. We are asked individually to come to decisions with reasons and these are written down to ensure that the clerk can then give appropriate reasons for the decision.

I would go to the LGO and send in the letter for good measure, suggesting that as they have not put anything in the letter they obviously did not make the decision based on the evidence that you had supplied and the facts given by the headteacher.

clam · 30/06/2010 21:53

Well, was he "told" what form he would be in? All 13 appelants attended the day, when it was unlikely they could all be accepted in to the school. They had to put them all somewhere on the day, so presumably they spread them out across the forms just to be going on with. The problem here is that by trying to save time/hassle in repeating information on a subsequent induction for any successful appeals, they've raised the hopes of all 13. All the information given on the students' day and the parents' evening was general stuff for those with confirmed places. I'm not sure you could argue that they were talking directly to you, therefore a place was in the bag.
But I don't see how that could be used to overturn the decision? Unfortunately for the OP.
But I'm no expert. And prhbridge knows her stuff. Have "read" her before! So let's hope that she's right and I'm wrong.

gillybean2 · 30/06/2010 09:48

Very quick as late for work. Just rang school and they confirmed two appeals had been successful.

Will look at your post in more detail when I get home from work prh47, thanks.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 30/06/2010 09:35

That's a fairly standard set of conclusions for an unsuccessful appeal.

If the head admitted during the appeal that the school had space I would expect that there may have been some successful appeals. The panel have to start by asking themselves if the school can admit all of the appelants. If they decide they can't (and you don't think they can), the next step is for them to decide for each individual case if the prejudice to the child outweighs the prejudice to the school. Finally, if that gives them more successful appeals than they think the school can handle, the panel have to compare the cases so that the places go to the most deserving.

My experience was in an infant class size case. We moved into the area a few months before our youngest was due to start school, missing the normal admissions round. Our application to put him into Reception at the local school was declined as they were full up. We appealed and the LA claimed it was an infant class size case despite the fact that the school operates with classes of 25 in infants. Their argument relied on a decision which had not yet been taken (and, as it happens, never was taken). We lost the first appeal despite the LA putting in a grossly inadequate case. We referred the matter to the LGO who agreed that the LA's case was inadequate and ordered a further appeal. We lost the second appeal and went to the LGO again. The LGO agreed that the LA could not continue to base an infant class size case on a decision that had not been taken and ordered them to admit our child. They did, albeit with very bad grace.

In going to the LGO I simply stated (in some detail) what I felt was wrong with the way the panel had arrived at its decision. In your case I would state that the induction day and the fact your child was told what form he would be in gave you a reasonable expectation that your child would be admitted. I would argue that the panel do not appear to have considered this in their decison making. I would suggest that the induction day amounted to an offer of a place by the school and that, under paragraph 1.50 of the School Admissions Code, there are very few circumstances in which such an offer can be withdrawn.

gillybean2 · 30/06/2010 01:26

I guess the LGO is the next port of call then. Wasn't sure they would actually be able to do anything except maybe slap the headteachers wrist and tell him not to do it again.

What was your experimce prh47? What kind of thing did you put to them that got you that result?

Just so tired with everything and still not sleeping well (been up since before 4am but it's still too hot to sleep).

The letter basically says the panel were unanimously satisfied that the published criteria were correctly applied, unanimously satisfied that prejudice to the provision of efficient education would result if my child were admitted. Panel not satisfied that my reasons for wishing to admit my child were sufficient to outway this (again unanimously).

I thought we had established there was room at the school based on the max capacity and figures head gave re 6th form. Head even admitted based on those figures school had space. So how can panel have found that?! I agree they couldn't have accepted everyone (13 appeals), but at least one space, posibly two was definitely there I feel.

I don't know yet if anyone succeeded. Going to try and find out tomorrow. That's if the school will tell me. Am kind of hoping no-one succeeded as it means we only have to wait for one space to come up, not two before they admit anyone else.

Given that we are 68 on waiting list I think the waiting game is very much reliant on other parents settling for a different school before term starts and a space coming up very close to start of term or even in first few weeks.

One of the mum's I spoke to who was appealing doesn't have an allocated school now for her dd (rejected offered school) and is closer to school than we are, so pretty sure she'll be staying on list come what may. How many others of those appeals are in similar situations!?

Really not sure what my next move should be now.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 30/06/2010 00:26

I'm sorry to hear that. However, I agree with Admission that the fact your child has been told what form he would be in, coupled with all the other stuff around the induction day, is an excellent case for referral to the LGO. The most likely outcome is that the LGO will recommend a fresh appeal but they do sometimes recommend that the child is admitted without any further appeals - that's how I got my son into the local primary school.

clam · 29/06/2010 21:39

Sorry to hear this.
Do you know if anyone else got a yes? Or a blanket 'no' for all. Don't know whether that would make it fell better or worse.

Any reasons given?

janeyjampot · 29/06/2010 18:40

Oh no! I'm really sorry. That's dreadful for you, especially after the induction days had got everyone's hopes up.

LimaCharlie · 29/06/2010 18:38

Oh, so sorry you didn't get it

belledechocolatefluffybunny · 29/06/2010 17:53
Sad
sue41 · 29/06/2010 17:51

Dear Gillybean2

So sorry to hear your news, really was hoping for good news. Hope you can either get another appeal or get in based on waiting list (keeping fingers crossed still....).

Sue

howlowl · 29/06/2010 17:48

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gillybean2 · 29/06/2010 17:15

Hi everyone
Letter arrived, it's a no.
Going to wait a couple of days before we do anything more.

OP posts:
sue41 · 29/06/2010 15:10

Hi Gillybean2 - hoping you get your reply today, we're all here willing the best.

You are quite right to start thinking about plan B - it is so close to the end of term now and if you go for HE there is so much to think about - I think you're v. brave.

Hope to hear some good news later today!

Sue

PixieOnaLeaf · 29/06/2010 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

LimaCharlie · 29/06/2010 14:51

Fingers crossed for you Gillybean - can't believe how protracted and stressful this process has been for you and us

belledechocolatefluffybunny · 28/06/2010 18:43

God, this sounds like hell for you. Fingers crossed that you recieve it tomorrow, they shouldn't make you wait for this.

janeyjampot · 28/06/2010 18:37

At least the school called you back. We tried calling the Panel Clerk at one stage - she'd said we'd hear by Wednesday, but nothing arrived - and she told us she'd be sending the letters on the Friday.

I know how agonising it is - in fact I'm getting quite agonised all over again for you! Fingers crossed for tomorrow's post...

gillybean2 · 28/06/2010 18:05

Message on my answerphone from the school saying they've not received anything yet either.

Sue I know you're right that I should feel positive and assume the best. I just can't allow myself to do that right now. Of course I want to answer to be yes, but until I see it in front of me I have to assume the worst as so few appeals actually succeed. Plus if you expect the worst it's so much better when you're wrong isn't it? Maybe?!

At least I've got a friend coming over tomorrow with her dc after school so will have someone here should the letter arrive, and more importantly if it's not here coz I don't think I can handle another day of not knowing!

OP posts:
sue41 · 28/06/2010 15:05

Well if it makes you feel any better, my boss and myself sometimes say we will ring back later and usually do!! We normally only put off speaking if we're just about to go out, enter a meeting or are in the middle of something important (although once or twice I have been so busy I forget - unless I've written it down!), so not everyone will be just trying to avoid you.

Assume the best, not the worst

clam · 28/06/2010 14:13

That'll be because you are!
Hopefully, one day, (soon) this will all be like a bad dream.

gillybean2 · 28/06/2010 13:20

Just rung the school to find out if they've had their letter yet. Usual admission's lady isn't in today (I knew that already) and the other lady I asked for (who was at the appeal hearing with the head so I figured she must be involved with appeals!) is with someone at the moment so I left my number for her to call me back. Course she may have just said that to get rid of me, that's what my boss usually says to avoid people who call for him when he's not wanting to talk to them just then...

And I'm off to school to help with swimming lessons at 2pm and then I run my after school club so won't be home till after 5.
So I'll probably miss her call and don't know whether she'll leave a message or not assuming she is really with someone and will call me back...

I'm really just trying to find out if they've had their letter, even if she won't tell me result over phone. Then at least I'll know mine should come tomorrow. And if they have had it then I'm hoping they may tell me over the phone to put me out of my misery.

Will be at work rest of week so won't get letter till evening whichever day it arrives. Assuming it's even been sent yet!

Tried ringing appeal panel helpline again to see if they would confirm letters had been sent, but it's answerphone still.

I sound desperate don't I!

OP posts: