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Original poster

Our appeal was not upheld

33 replies

Gymbob · 25/05/2010 22:36

Hi All

This is my first post, so apologies if I was supposed to intro myself somewhere else first!

I'm hoping that someone out there can help us. Our appeal was rejected for our daughter's preferred secondary school. She has special needs, and is on the special needs register, but does not have an SEN. The school we appealed for is massively oversubscribed which was the reason for us not being successful. They also said that our daughter's needs can be met at our allocated school (we disagree), but half of them can be.

Since the appeal we have discovered that the chairman on the appeal panel is also a governor at our allocated school. We know that nobody connected with the school we are appealing for is allowed to sit on the panel, but is someone connected to the allocated school allowed to sit? I'm having trouble finding the answer.

Thanks so much for any replies, they will be so welcome.

Gymbob x x

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Original poster
Gymbob · 04/06/2010 12:52

The way they deal with non statemented SEN children is nothing short of disgraceful. The system needs a total overhaul.

You have nothing to lose by going to the LGO.

G x

OP posts:
MsDav · 04/06/2010 11:32

Balance of prejudice was the exact term used in the letter. They say they did take into consideration my son's conditions but on balance found the prejudice to the school to be greater than the benefit to my child of admitting him there.

I'm totally gutted, on the day of the appeal we felt we'd made our case very well, the school representative agreed that my son has a disability and the panel were nodding and agreeing with us that he needs a smaller school .... grrrr

prh47bridge · 04/06/2010 11:08

MsDav - The panel should have looked at whether the prejudice to your child from not being admitted outweighed the prejudice to the school. The decision should therefore talk about "balance of prejudice" or something like that. If they simply decided that admitting your child would cause prejudice to the school and stopped at that point they failed to follow the correct process, giving you a good reason to go to the LGO.

MsDav · 04/06/2010 10:43

It was a secondary school appeal, its a small C of E school with only a 4 form entry. The appeal was not upheld as the panel agreed that going over PAN would have a prejudice to existing students with regards to having to share equipment etc.

I don't think we will go to the LGO, I feel pretty deflated right now. We have an appeal for the grammer school next week but I'm not filled with much hope there either although the basis for that is different, this one is over a failure of agreed procedure for my son on the day of the tests.

Original poster
Gymbob · 03/06/2010 23:28

My sympathies MsDav. We can seethe together. Are you saying that your appeal was not upheld? Are you going to the LGO?

G x

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 03/06/2010 12:12

MsDav - Was yours a primary school admissions case? If it was for a secondary school they shouldn't be talking about class size prejudice. Can you tell us some more about your case?

MsDav · 03/06/2010 11:48

Appeal not upheld due to prejudice on class size. Something really really needs to be done to help our SN children that aren't statemented. I'm seething.

Original poster
Gymbob · 02/06/2010 23:55

Hi Bourboncreme

Thanks, and yes you are very fortunate to be able to privately educate your child. He sounds like he is doing very well. Brilliant.

xx

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bourboncreme · 02/06/2010 10:01

You have my sympathies,we also have a ds with SEN but no statement.Our LEA is dreadful for statements for conditions like his they seem to have no understanding or real influence ,in despair we have gone private(I am very well aware we are very priviliged to be able to do this)and he is now at a specialist school where the expectations of him are high dahe is responding to them

Original poster
Gymbob · 01/06/2010 23:53

Admission

I just tried to send you an email and it has failed due to a permanent error in the address (it says). Is there another way to contact you? Hang on I've just knocked the 's' off admissions, so will try again.

Thanks
G x

OP posts:
Original poster
Gymbob · 01/06/2010 23:38

MsDav Thanks for your support, you have put your feelings across perfectly. I wish you all the best for your appeal being upheld. Pls let me know if you are successful.

G x

Wasuup I have complained to the LGO but will look into the leads you have mentioned. thank you.

G x

OP posts:
wasuup3000 · 01/06/2010 12:24

Gymbob have you considered appealing to SENDIST see the IPSEA website against your LEA's refusal assess your daughter for a statement?

MsDav · 01/06/2010 11:19

Have to agree with Gymbob here. I'm also a mother of a child with SN but not statemented. My son doesn't need a statement he has no need of extra support within the classroom but he does need to be in a specific school due to his emotional needs and his diagnosed conditions which would be more easily managed at the school we have appealed for. There should be (IMHO) a form of statement that doesn't come with funding but which recognises those sorts of needs and makes provision for school placement.

My son can cope perfectly fine in a mainstream class but will not cope in a large school which only pays lip service to the needs of children with his sort of diagnosis. There is a mainstream school a short bus ride away that is half the size of the one he has been given a place at which also has an excellant reputation with children who have these conditions such as ADHD, Dyspraxia, etc etc Like Gymbob said, its a grey area that needs sorting out. The schools won't consider our children under exceptional social or medical need and so we end up having to go to appeal.

We had our appeal last week and should hear this week. I have no nails.

Original poster
Gymbob · 31/05/2010 17:51

I will be very interested to hear your views and will email you later. Thank you.

OP posts:
admission · 31/05/2010 13:37

Gymbob,
I am quite happy to hear what your reasons are, either as a post or privately to [email protected]

I do agree with you that children with SEN can be left very much struggling to get a sensible place in a school. However you do have to understand that government policy for probably 10 years has been that most children with SEN can be educated in mainstream classes. The problem is, as far as I am concerned, that there is a major disconnect between the theory and the practical when it comes to having suitable support for these children in a main stream class and also whether it is the best palce educationally and socially for them. Another consideration is the issue of the other 29 pupils in the class.

However admission code does not really recognise children with SEN, other than with a statement. As I have said in effect the assumption that has to be made is that they can easily cope in a main stream class. The only potential for SEN to be considered is if there is a medical criteria in the admissions criteria, but many do not.

Original poster
Gymbob · 30/05/2010 23:23

I don't think you're being rude - I like a good discussion! I would be rather interested to hear whether or not you think our reasons are good or not actually.

Of course, every parent thinks that their reasons are better than the next. And if the complication regarding the chair of the panel is taken out, then I am appalled with the admissions code. It caters for statemented children - but all those special needs children with diagnosed conditions, have to fight to get the most appropriate schools. In my opinion special needs children with documented support from relevant professionals should also be high on the admission policies.

As it is we are in a very grey area with nobody to help us.

G x

OP posts:
admission · 30/05/2010 22:36

gymbob,
Sorry to be a little rude but I am not sure that hiring a barrister should convince you that you had good reasons for admission.
If I had a pound for every appealant who has said they have good reasons for admission which actually are not, then I would be rich!
What you think and what a barrister thinks are good reasons are not necessarily the same as good reasons according to the admissions code. If your barrister was an expert in admission code then maybe that is good advice otherwise maybe not.
I do commend you not involving your daughter, it is far better than she does not pick up the concerns that you have.

Original poster
Gymbob · 29/05/2010 22:57

Thanks prh, that sounds fair to me.

Clam - we had extremely strong evidence in our favour. I know that counts for not a lot and plenty of people could have had a stronger reasons for admission. But that said - we hired a barrister to go over our case - and even without his input he thought we had an extremely good chance. When our appeal wasn't upheld I googled all the panellists' names and that's when I discovered, in my opinion, an unsavoury connection.

So yes, in answer to your question I do think we may have had more of a chance if the ex governor panellist hadn't been there. I don't actually feel desperate, but I do feel that the appeal wasn't fair and if a second panel dismiss our appeal then fine. We feel very fortunate that our daughter has got a place in an excellent oversubscribed school that have been holding appeals themselves.

The transitionary period will be more than is usual because of her disability and I am happy with it. We are sure she will do well at the school - but she would do better at the other. There are no other solutions that we know of.

FYI - my daughter knows nothing of the appeal anyhow so is completely oblivious to it all. We have told her she is going to the best school for her. We don't have much choice, but we are well aware that she could pick up bad vibes from us so we make sure she doesn't get any and she is happy.

G x

OP posts:
clam · 29/05/2010 18:56

Do you really think that the presence of this panellist swung it against you, and you would have won had he not been there?
I only ask, as it sounds as if you have pinned all your hopes on the very slim chance that it will be different a second time. I understand you feel desperate about the whole situation, but even so. Are there any other solutions at all?

prh47bridge · 29/05/2010 18:41

The new panel will not be told that it is a second appeal, let alone the reasons. They may pick up the fact it is a second appeal from the vibes. The clerk will be aware it is a second appeal and should also know the reason why. It is the clerk's job to make sure the second appeal doesn't go wrong in the same way as the first.

Original poster
Gymbob · 29/05/2010 13:58

Another question please - if the LGO decides to order a fresh appeal, will the new panel be privvy as to the reasons why, ie. us doubting a fellow panellists integrity?

Not that I don't think they're all as thick as thieves or anything !! Much. They're all local(ish) people and their paths seem to cross all over the place.

Thanks peeps

G x

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Original poster
Gymbob · 29/05/2010 11:50

Thanks again folks for your replies. I have contacted the local education officer, who said that the chair hasn't been a governor at the allocated school for 'some months'. He is still listed on the school's website as a governor, and they still haven't replied to my email.

I am still not satisfied that he was sufficiently neutral to sit on the panel to I have complained to the LGO. Not sure I would have done that if I hadn't received advice here - so thanks a lot.

mummytime - my local parent partnership advised that my daughter will not meet the criteria for a statement, and when I applied about 6 months ago to request an assessment of SEN we were refused.

OP posts:
mummytime · 29/05/2010 06:48

I would also be appealing that statement issue. I can't see the school not giing 15 hours support being a reason not to give you a statement. Try IPSEA or SENSOS for advice (or maybe your local parent partnership).

admission · 27/05/2010 22:56

Have a look on the website of the school and see if they have a list of the governors on it.

To be honest it does not matter whether they are still a governor or not. The simple fact is they were a governor at the school and therefore should have declared that.

prh47bridge · 27/05/2010 22:55

The only other possibility that springs to mind would be to ask the LA. They should know who the governors are. Other sources such as the school's website may not be up to date.

If you are trying to check what the LA has told you, the only source I can think of is the school.