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Original poster

Moving to Steiner for Secondary School from State Primary

113 replies

WKMum · 21/04/2010 11:05

Hello!

Advice sought from all you very knowledgeable Mums and Dads out there!

I realize I may be opening a can of worms with this post, but I have tried to make my way through the various other Steiner threads on MN and, despite their being very long and rambling, very few of the posts seem to address my particular situation, so please forgive me for starting up another debate.

I am posting this in the Secondary School thread, because I am not interested in the whole Steiner Early Years 'To Read Or Not To Read' debate.

My DD is eight years old and in Y3 at our local state primary school. She is strong at the more 'creative' subjects, such as writing and drama, but her maths is poor and she is in the 'lower set'. (Personally, I have an issue with the idea of 'streaming' children as young as seven, as I think it gives their confidence a terrible knock, and only serves to dint their interest in the subject even further - but that is another discussion!)

We live in a GS area, and a large number of the children at DD's school will go on to GS. My daughter's teacher has indicated, however, that she is unlikely to pass the 11+. (Information I was given, rather than requested.) Although I appreciate it is early to make this call, and nothing is set in stone, I am nonetheless currently exploring the other options.

The one aim I have for my DD is that she is happy in her secondary school. Academic achievement is not the 'be all and end all' in my opinion, and I am not inclined to have her intensely coached to pass the 11+, as I know a lot of people around here do, just so she can then be at the bottom of a very large pile of very bright/pushed kids, which I think would just undermine her confidence.

My preference for her would be a small, non-selective indie, in which she can feel comfortably average in most subjects and have enough one-to-one attention to be encouraged to reach her full potential in the subjects she enjoys.

With this in mind, DH and I went to see our local Steiner school. I was impressed by the ethos and the way the children seemed happy and engaged with what they were doing, and the teachers seemed relaxed but in control. The facilities were also good - theatre, sports hall, library etc.

As I understand it, Steiner schools do vary a lot, but I would be very interested to hear from any Steiner parents or pupils (former or current) who have experienced the transition from state primary school to Steiner school at age 11 (i.e. mid-way through the Steiner 'Lower School'). Was it a difficult transition to make - particularly given that you would be joining a class of children and teacher who have been together from the age of seven? Did the school feel very different from state primary? Better or worse?

Also, how did the school approach GCSEs and 'A' Level preparation within the Steiner methodology? Do you feel you had adequate help and encouragement without being pressured?

This will probably make me sound like a hippie - even though there is not an incense stick to be seen in my house! - but I am a great believer in 'the journey' being just as important as the destination, and I am worried about my DD's character being 'crushed' by what I see as the high-pressured environment of the current educational model favoured in most UK state schools.

However, should my DD wish to take exams when she is older and ready to make that decision for herself, I would want her to be adequately prepared. I'd love to know from anyone whether they think the Steiner method would work in this regard.

Thanks so much for reading this post. I apologise that it's rather long, but I wanted to try to make clear the sort of feedback/advice I am looking for.

Could I kindly ask everyone to please avoid posting potentially libelous comments on this thread, as I know this is a highly-emotive subject and do not want to get MN into any trouble.

OP posts:
Original poster
WKMum · 30/04/2010 10:19

Dear RN,

I don't think it's fair to say that 'the whole business is a kind of joke' to me, given that I have repeatedly expressed concern and sympathy for those who have had a bad experience of Steiner education, and gratitude to them for sharing their stories with me.

Nor do I think it is unreasonable for me to suggest that opinion is divided over Steiner teaching, that emotions run high about it and that there are some extreme views in both camps, which is all I was effectively saying. (I used the term 'anti-Waldorf' because I was given a link on this thread to a site called 'waldorfcritics.org'; I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by 'funny word in a UK context'.)

Like I'm sure all MNetters do for their DCs, I take my DD's education very seriously, and to that end, I am once again grateful to all posters for sharing in what I think has been a very informative (for me) and open debate.

I would be interested to hear more about the other forms of alternative schooling that you mention Steve Walden knows about. I know you said they are not in my part of the country (South East), but I am still curious to hear about the alternatives. Do you mean Summerhill? (DH's mother and sibs went there for a while - years ago, obviously. It was a bit of a mixed experience for them, I think.)

Anyway, I wish everyone's DCs all the best with their schooling and I sincerely hope that not everyone reading my posts has been left with the impression that I am an unkind and inconsiderate person.

OP posts:
restlessnative · 29/04/2010 19:06

Thing is, I was emailed that comment of yours by another mumsnetter who was quite upset about it. When parents find out that a school hasn't been honest with them about its core beliefs they can be quite distressed. Again, the whole business is a kind of joke to you as you admit but it isn't a joke when it happens to your dc. So perhaps you can see how insensitive it seemed. And, with all due respect, you certainly do have more to learn about that nearby school.

Can you understand why these things might need to be analysed? If those 'anti-Waldorfians' (funny word in a UK context) hadn't tried to understand & explain the history & philosophy behind the Steiner pedagogy, they wouldn't be able to support the parents who are trying now to make sense of their Waldorf school experiences. My own experience wasn't particularly bad & I've not needed their help but I can see the courage & persistence in the work you say is a 'fixation'. I take my hat off to the Waldorf Steiner critics/skeptics in the US, Sweden, Norway, Germany, the UK, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, The Netherlands...

More importantly, if this thread is being read by Steiner parents, ex-parents or those considering a Steiner school for their dcs, I hope it's useful. I think it has shown that it's possible to talk about your experiences here with the normal discretion but without fear, which you should be able to do on a parents' forum in a free country. Best wishes to all lurkers

Original poster
WKMum · 29/04/2010 18:15

I came on this site to get advice about Steiner schools and I can honestly say I have been overwhelmed by the response I have had: it has given me a lot to think about and I have been genuinely grateful (and expressed this over and over) to everyone who has posted such thoughtful and considered comments - often opening up about clearly very personal and emotive experiences. Once again: thank you all.

RestlessNative: I was certainly aware that any MNetter might read what I had written in my post on another thread: writing anything in a forum read by thousands of people every day is not like having a private conversation in the back of a car, now is it?!

My comment about anti-Waldorfers sounding fervent or cultish had nothing to do with people contributing to this thread. However, some of the things I have read on anti-Walforf forums seem to me to be rather intense. I am not talking about the negative experiences people's DCs have had at Steiner schools, which are obviously extremely sad, but the lengths some 'antis' go to to analyze the methodology in such enormous detail - it seems to become a fixation. Perhaps it is a form of cartharsis, in which case I hope it works for them.

The mention of the thread being pulled (which I intended to be a joke, but maybe that wasn't obvious) was a reference to the fact that I was criticizing Steiner teachers: from what I had observed from earlier Steiner threads on MN, the posts of people who did so seemed to vanish.

Anyway, in case anyone is still unclear: I am very grateful to all who have commented here.

Steiner is probably not my preferred option for my DD: but, since there was a school near to us, I felt it was important to check out what it might have to offer. I think I have now formed a much better understanding of that, although I also think I have a lot more to learn.

This is, in essence, what I have understood about Steiner schools:

  1. It is probably quite likely that it will be difficult for my DD to integrate into the Steiner system later on because it very different from the state system and the class will have been together for a number of years already forming a strong bond.
  1. While Steiner may offer a less stressful/exam-based education than mainstream UK schooling, it is based on some rather unusual principles that are quasi-religious and involve children believing in fairies, gnomes, karma and reincarnation.
  1. Bullying can be rife at some schools because there are no structures in place to tackle it and because teachers often don't wish to intervene, believing it is the result of karma.
  1. Some Steiner teachers are great and some DCs have had a positive experience of Steiner schools.
  1. Some Steiner teachers are terrible and some DCs have had an extremely negative experience of Steiner schools.
  1. Steiner schools tend not to be very open about the anthro basis that lies at the root of their teaching, which leaves many parents angry that they weren't better informed before subscribing their children to the Steiner system.
  1. Most Steiner schools put a cap on the number of GCSEs you can take.

Please feel free to add to this list if you think I have missed anything out.

As I have repeatedly said, I am keeping a completely open mind about all the schools that might be suitable for my DD and exploring them as fully as I can.

Thanks so much for sharing your expert knowledge and take care all!

OP posts:
Northernrefugee39 · 29/04/2010 13:35

Hi WKMum

I see your dilemma; you've had some great advice though here on this thread. The posts advocating caution from people with first hand knowledge don't seem in the least "cultish" but genuine answers to your question, even if they aren't the answers you were hoping to receive. Perhaps you've made up your mind already and want reassurance.

The schools are often superficially seductive, all that wood and pastel colours. Some seem like a sort of bohemian public school- private school education lite, with their beautiful grounds and buildings.

Our children started at state primary & moved to Steiner- eldest was 9 I think. Our reasons were probably much the same as the one's you're struggling with now- teaching to the test and not enough creativity, but I can assure you, the Steiner curriculum didn't fulfill the promises they'd offered creatively, or in nurturing the "whole child". The bullying was terrible, teaching bad and boring. When the full realisation of anthroposophic rule of law dawned on us we were shaken to the core; I was outraged that teaching and decisions centered around karma, reincarnation etc had been made about our children. It is duplicitous.

Most people tend to move their children from Steiner to a "normal" secondary school, so you probably won't get many who have had the experience you're after. I suspect people move to other schools so their children get a reasonable stab at GCSE's. (I think many Steiner schools often allow only a maximum of 5 but I could be wrong.) Interestingly, some of the anthroposophical parents round here chose private boarding schools over Steiner schools -perhaps they know something others don't.

As some of the others have said, I could imagine it would be hard to slot in easily to Steiner school at 11, it is so very very different, not just the pedagogy, but the children are different because they have been in that closed and frankly odd community.

Your dd is so very young. Things change so much in such a short space of time. We all want the best for our dc's, but "special" and "different" in the case of Steiner school may not be what you're hoping for.

restlessnative · 29/04/2010 10:14

WKMum - I see from another thread that you believe:
'The trouble is, some of the really ardent anti-Waldorfers sound almost as fervent and cultish as the purportedly, erm, 'eccentric' Steiner teachers ... (No doubt this post will be pulled now!)'

That's a bit of a 'mic left on' moment, eh?

I've no idea why your post would be pulled. It just seems so unkind, so lacking in empathy for the parents who've been so honest & kind in helping & supporting each other on these threads, as maimuna herself had done several times, as Steve Walden does on the WASSO survivor's group. But as I've already said, nothing would surprise those 'anti-Waldorfians' - except perhaps that their concerns were taken as seriously as they deserve.

You take care now.

restlessnative · 29/04/2010 09:51

hello Maimuna! It sounds brilliant. Confidence helps with everything doesn't it, even maths

Well Mr Tizian, my little smörgåsbord of red herrings, it hardly matters whether the Mystic Barmpot wrote his work down or said it in his lectures (there were a lot of lectures, so he said a lot of stuff, some of it more hair-raising than other stuff depending on his audience) - it's in written form now. Actually you can listen to it too on Rudolf Steiner audio. You could even put it on your ipod & go for a reflective stroll (not recommended for those with high blood-pressure or pre-existing Steiner school fees)

I think we might be seeing here your 'plethora of evidence' especially when you cite a 'Coordinator of Holistic and Aesthetic Education'

maimuna · 29/04/2010 09:16

Hi WKMum,

Ha ha,yes choosing schools is a nightmare ! I know exactly what you mean about it being a tough profession,my husband is a music bizz manager and was in a band and a producer before doing that,he almost tried to put our dd off ! There was no stopping her and she works really hard at school,all vocational in the morning and academic subjects in the afternoon,she also chooses to do six hours of street dance a week outside school and has recorded five songs.She comes home with stories of the kids breaking into six part harmonies to sing Happy Birthday to someone in the middle of a lesson
and how they were all in tears as an acting improvisation was so moving etc !
We knew she wasn't academic so helped her pursue what she was good at and found easy in comparison to school work,( she's like your dd,she can learn a Beyonce song after a couple of listens but is only just getting her head around long division ) Because she is doing well and impressing the school with her vocational work she has gained so much confidence and that seems to have helped her academic work,she is now average in her English class which I couldn't have imagined a year ago ( she started this school in September ).

Also there are many avenues of work in the profession,especially if your dd is good at dance or singing as well as acting.Anyway as you say shes only 8, you'll know for sure in the next couple of years I'd say . Do you know though that a lot of the theatre school start at year 6 ?

I remember with my dd that school work was such a struggle at age 8,she couldn't really read well at all and Maths just wasn't happening ! She's 14 now and has been reading age appropriate books since age 10 and writes a good story,she does really well in class discussions and presentations and I can't believe how its all come together,apart from Maths but at least she's not scared off it anymore and doesn't get angry doing her homework !

Maimuna

Tizian · 28/04/2010 23:26

"... it is essential that you read books that Steiner wrote on education, there are plenty at Amazon" ...

Actually the only thing he wrote on it was an essay at an early time - 1909, ten years before the founding of the first Waldorf school - on the education of the child from the perspective of anthroposophy.

Except for that, everything else he expressed on the subject had the form of a number of lecture series' and discussions with teachers in connection with and after the first Waldorf school was founded in 1919.

Basically all of them, 22 of 25 volumes, are accessible for free online, published by Steinerbooks.

They document the inspirational source of Steiner Waldorf education, 90 years ago.

In that perspective, one can find it interesting how a number of educationalists, like Ernest L Boyer, Former President, Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, Jack Miller, Professor, Coordinator of Holistic and Aesthetic Education in the Department of Curriculum, Teaching and Learning at the University of Toronto, Paul Bayers, (earlier) Professor at Teachers College, Columbia University, Joseph Weizenbaum, Professor (now emeritus), MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), author of Computer Power and Human Reason, Kenneth Chenault, Chairman and CEO of American Express, former Waldorf student (Waldorf School of Garden City) and others, comment on it almost a century later, with today on the order of 1,000 schools world wide.

Original poster
WKMum · 28/04/2010 23:09

p.s. I meant to add that we have a fair few thesps in our family, so I am all-too-aware aware of the pros and pitfalls of this profession - the ever-stressful 'resting' and close-to-enforced self-criticality etc. - which I am anxious to avoid, although I obviously don't want to stifle her if she feels able to take all this on.

Blimey! Why did I think childbirth would be the difficult part!

OP posts:
Original poster
WKMum · 28/04/2010 23:05

Dear Maimuna,

Thank you so much for your post. I have to say it was very encouraging to read about your experience, given that your situation is very close to my own, and that your motivations sound very similar to mine.

I am certainly looking into the whole Steiner methodology very carefully before committing and I am grateful to the many posters on this thread that have pointed me towards informative literature about the 'religious' aspects of the Steiner approach.

I am very happy for my DD to pursue her interests in theatre/dance/drama/singing outside of school, and I know it would be too late for her to embark on learning these things at 16, but I suppose I'd just rather she didn't focus exclusively on them until she is older.

That said, I would be happy for her to go to a theatre school if it was what she wanted; I suppose I am just a bit worried about how she will cope in what is generally regarded as a very 'tough' profession. Obviously, as she has only just turned eight years old, it is hard to tell if she is truly 'talented', but her drama teachers rave about her and she certainly seems to thrive on stage (she can learn lines in next to no time).

I am sensing that your experience of drama school has been very positive for your daughter, though, which is great news.

Thanks for sharing!

OP posts:
maimuna · 28/04/2010 22:01

Hi WK Mum,
My daughter went from mainstream to Steiner School at age 11.She made some lovely friends and there were some caring dedicated teachers but we removed her after two years.
We liked the idea of all the art opportunities,woodwork ,metalwork etc and the fact that there was a huge theatre as our daughter is dyslexic but arty and very good at singing,dancing and drama. We thought it would be unpushy and liked the idea of her staying with one teacher from 11-14 when she would go to the upper school.

In fact she had three teachers in the first year.I think six or seven new kids joined when she did and they have all left now.There was a very high turnover and I four new kids have arrived since we left.I think it is hard to fit in,some parents were welcoming but it was an effort to have our ideas heard.

Like I said our dd still has some great friends from the school but she found it all a bit 'odd' and felt like all the new kids weren't 'Steinerised' like the kids that had been there for ages.

The art work was good in the upper school ( 14 plus ) but before that it was very rigid and some work such as 'layering' a watercolour technique was I found out to help the child's soul rather than an artistic expression !

I totally agree with Walden's post ,it is essential that you read books that Steiner wrote on education,there are plenty at Amazon ,they are completely different from the school prospectus you will be given.If you are happy with his ideas then thats fine.I remember asking one of the trustees why they didn't talk about reincarnating the childs soul in the school literature and she said she thought all the parents new about it .We certainly didn't and I doubt if any of the new parents did.

There was bullying at the school which as you say can happen anywhere its just that these schools don't seem to deal with it in a normal way.

By the way my dd is at theatre school now and loves it ,I wish we had put her there at 11 as she has always been obsessed with the stage and done classes outside school since she was small.I'd say if your daughter really has a talent thats apparent then at 16 it will be too late for her to get a theatre career going,there's a lot of tap,ballet,jazz etc that she'll have to master !

Good luck with your search ! Don't worry about her being in the bottom set for Maths ,thats a good thing as the teachers are giving her work that is the right level for her,her self esteem would be worse if she was in a higher set.As for the teacher that thinks she may not pass her 11 plus ask her if she thinks she may have dyslexia as you can often tell by age 7,thats when we got our dd tested then she had a dyslexic tutor which is very different than having a regular one I'd say,

Maimuna

restlessnative · 28/04/2010 19:25

btw TubOfLard, perhaps the text was just easier for an anthroposophist to find. I understand you charming esotericists have access to Higher Googling

restlessnative · 28/04/2010 18:48

If the Good School Guide is anything like the Good Hotel Guide you can take it with a pinch of salt, a slice of lime & a shot of tequila

I don't think many people are looking for alternative schools, what they'd really like are better schools and for many parents & teachers a revision of the existing exam-based culture. There are however some real, progressive alternatives, just not near you. Steve Walden knows what I mean.

You're always so sensible mathsanxiety

mathanxiety · 28/04/2010 15:04

I would also say, if your DD is leaning towards the theatre or theatrical arts, and if she shows any talent in this area, then I would definitely encourage this. Even if she turns out not to have a showbiz career, there are lots and lots of openings for people with the kind of skills, both 'soft' and 'hard' that people with a theatrical background have. The direction she might end up going in might not be as obvious as a career track for someone with strong maths skills, but an education in the performing arts area can be very valuable. What you do with it afterwards is up to you, but the same can be said for every area you might study.

mathanxiety · 28/04/2010 14:59

Just to add to what RN posted -- my only brush with Steiner ed was a watercolour painting class that DD3 took when she would have been about 3 or 4. It was run by a Steiner teacher, but in a community hall and not under the aegis of the Steiner school where this teacher taught.

My DD produced what I thought were lovely, dreamy, very pastel watercolours (wet on wet method, rounded-edge, proper watercolour paper, and high quality brushes were used) and seemed to be enjoying the quiet and ordered atmosphere of the class.

However, the teacher was unhappy with DD's end results and let me know she thought there was definitely something wrong with her work. She didn't elaborate on her dissatisfaction, though, and I was puzzled about this until I read another Steiner thread here on MN where someone posted very helpful links that explained the whole painting thing.

So I would say, if you are thinking about Steiner, please educate yourself thoroughly first. Anthroposophy colours everything that is taught there, and the way everything is taught, and the aims of the school, and the way individual children are treated.

Original poster
WKMum · 28/04/2010 14:41

Thanks for the additional info, RN, which is very helpful - and obviously sad for the DCs in question. I'm glad things have worked out OK for them in the end. Isn't it amazing that this school is in the Good Schools Guide given how many people have had bad experiences there?

Naturally, as I wrote in my post, I realize that appearances can be deceptive and that you never see the full picture of a school on an open day. That's precisely why I started this thread. I'm very glad that I have had the opportunity to hear all these stories and have been given access to more information on the Steiner methodology a long time before I have to come to any conclusions about it. I would have hated to arrive at Year 5 in a complete panic and made an ill-informed, rash decision, as so many others seem to have done before me - poor things!

As you may have noticed, I have started a thread about other non-selectives in the area, but so far I've had no responses. I might try to start one about theatre schools as well, since I can't find much in my searches on them. Hopefully, in the end, we will manage to find the most appropriate school for our DD. (I sometimes think that, after putting in all this leg work, DD will end up deciding that she wants to sit the 11+ and beg me for extra coaching so she can go to GS with her friends!)

What I find quite surprising, is that there are so many people out there who are looking for some form of alternative education for their children, but there just doesn't seem to be anything available other than Steiner.

I will, of course, be happy to support my DD whatever choices she makes about her future schooling when the time comes.

Thanks again!

OP posts:
restlessnative · 28/04/2010 12:11

I'm assuming you visited the school on an Open Day? I bet if you visited any Independent school (after all, they want you to pay the fees) you'd see the best they had to offer. And you wouldn't see dcs weeping in the corridors. I certainly hope the Steiner School at FR isn't full of unhappy children, that would be awful but your local community college isn't either, that isn't the point. The point is that the pedagogy of that Steiner school is entirely based on anthroposophy, which isn't a very good idea. Sooner or later things will go wrong.

I have a friend who transfered her dcs to the school you're talking about after positive experiences at two different, urban Steiner schools, one in the UK, the other elsewhere. She's a very bright, sensible woman. After a few months in the community around the school (which she thought was really odd) she realized that her dc's class teacher was acting in a frankly cruel, bewildering way towards her child: suggesting there was something wrong with her, criticizing her behaviour. My friend was used to putting her trust in Steiner teachers even if she didn't entirely understand their reasons (oh, it's anthro stuff, they know what they're doing) so at first she allowed her dc to 'go through' what she thought must be the difficult bits of the relationship... until even she accepted that the teacher's intentions were effectively malign, whatever she believed she was doing. Luckily the dcs (who are also very bright) are now happy in other (state) schools and whatever personality defects the first dc supposedly had (in fact she's delightful) didn't manifest again.

I dread to think what was going through that Steiner teacher's mind.. in fact that I have some idea what it might have been. Not good.

Of course you could have a duff teacher in any school - or discover that the nice little indy that looked so good at first is a bit old-fashioned and doesn't suit your dc in the long term. But the relationship Steiner children have with their class teacher is different, it's designed to be a much more intense relationship. With luck your dc could go all the way through perfectly happy (as long as you turn a blind-eye to those odd experiences and the rapid exits of other students and staff - Steiner schools have a brisk turnaround) and you don't mind the effect that the pedagogy might be having on her (how would you know?)

It is after all just school. You are a much more important part of your dc's life.

I wish her luck with the theatre arts school idea - I think you might need better advice on another thread about that. I suspect theatre school would give her a perfectly reasonable education anyway and how exciting to have those challenges as a teenager, whether or not she pursues theatre as a career.

Original poster
WKMum · 28/04/2010 10:00

Thanks for sharing, Activate. I'm sorry to hear that your sister's experience of Steiner was so negative. May I ask whether she was at a state school prior to that?

The main reason I started this thread was to try to establish whether it was possible to transfer to Steiner at a later stage, or whether it was just too difficult to fit in to a different system later on.

Certainly, from what I am getting on this thread, it doesn't look like it would be a great success - and, of course, that's aside from the issues relating to Steiner's teaching methodology.

It's so strange how, when we visited the school and talked to the children, they all seemed to be quite happy and settled there. (There was a marked absence, for instance, of those poor anorexic girls that you see in so many girls indie schools where they are under so much pressure - and I know all about that, because I was one of those girls all those years ago.) They all said they'd had a great time at school. In the lessons we saw, they were doing chemistry, art, silver-smithing, German and geography - you name it! Of course, I understand that appearances can be deceptive, but it's alarming to think that so many of them must be unhappy.

I think my position is very similar to the one ShellingPeas's friends are in - obviously they live in the same area - and the options are disappointingly limited for less academically able children ...

Maybe I will start a thread about Beechwood and Sackville. I tried one on Battle Abbey, but got no replies! And, just to repeat myself, of course I know that we have another couple of years to see how my DD develops before we need to make any decisions.

At the moment, like a thousand other little girls, she has her heart set on a theatre arts school (Tring Park, Italia Conti, Arts Educational, etc.) but I'm worried that it's such a narrowing of options at such a young age (and, in general, such a confidence-bashing profession), that I'd rather she only embarked on that road at 16+ at the earliest, if she still felt inclined towards it.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for the warnings, links, advice, comments - some of which is quite personal, so I am very grateful to you for sharing.

(p.s. That wasn't an attempt to close the thread: just a genuine proffering of thanks!)

OP posts:
activate · 28/04/2010 06:20

My sister had the misfortune of attending a Steiner school from the ages of 11 to 13 until my parents realised that it was not, despite the outside image, a healthy place conducive to a good future. Luckily they were sensible enough to take her out and put her in a local state school where she thrived and succeeded.

Original poster
WKMum · 28/04/2010 05:58

Thanks for all the helpful posts and further links.

Mathsanxiety: I sympathize with your situation a lot and I fully agree that only time will tell whether my DD's relationship to maths might improve. (Sadly, my own never did: I would have no chance at passing that 11+ maths paper myself, even now!)

Steve Walden: Thanks so much for posting; your advice is very informative and helpful and I really appreciate your considered, balanced approach. I certainly intend to become as informed as possible before embarking on the Steiner road for my daughter (and, don't worry, I don't regard Wiki as a reliable source for anything much at all!)

I'm very glad I started this thread, as it has brought in some great advice.

OP posts:
TubOfLard · 28/04/2010 01:58

Thanks restless-my thought was that some people, both anthroposophists and non-anthroposophists alike, might not be aware that a large portion of Understanding Waldorf Education:teaching from the inside out is available to read on-line through google books.

restlessnative · 27/04/2010 22:45

Well done Tub, perhaps you worry it takes an anthroposophist to find a book on Google ;)

restlessnative · 27/04/2010 22:37

the link to that last quote is here.

Really helpful guide through the maze by a former Steiner Waldorf pupil.

TubOfLard · 27/04/2010 22:36

anti-asbestos based education

restlessnative · 27/04/2010 22:30

Not very good at critical thinking, Jack Petrash. Or thinking at all:

'When he was a child, Jack Petrash was taught ?about the benefits of asbestos.? Later, of course, asbestos was identified as a carcinogen. On this basis, Petrash argues that schools should not place too much emphasis on teaching children facts. ?This [e.g., society?s changed understanding of asbestos] is the obvious flaw in fact-based education. Whether we were taught about the solar system, the Soviet Union, or computers, much of what we had to learn in school is now outdated.? [Jack Petrash, UNDERSTANDING WALDORF EDUCATION (Gryphon House, 2002), p. 26.]'

From 'Today, Waldorf for the 21st century' by Roger Rawlings.

Oh dear.