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Original poster

Science should not be enjoyable

92 replies

cococake · 18/03/2010 18:59

Or so says my dd's science teacher tonight!

It was parents evening tonight and my dd's science teacher and form teacher are one and the same.

She is in yr 8. The teacher said all other teachers were very pleased with her, but he wanted to know why her last two science test results were so poor, when she was one of the most able in the class.

He said 'I can't understand what's gone wrong, so can't help fix it.'

So I said to dd 'What's the reason?'

She said 'The topics were boring.'

Teacher said 'That's not an excuse.'

I said 'No that's not an excuse that's her reason, how can we make the topic more enjoyable for you, do you need to write bullet points for revision, draw diagrams, how would you like to revise this.

The teacher said 'She's yr 8, science is not meant to be enjoyable, she just has to accept that she has to learn it.

He then finished the meeting by saying 'I can't understand why the test results were poor, so I can't do anything about it'.

Please any teachers or other parents, explain the other perspective, as I came out with my dd saying is this going to get worse. I said if education was meant to be unenjoyable no one would stay in FE. We'll make it enjoyable for you, and try new study techniques.

BTW she wants to do science at University, so certainly don't want her thinking it's meant to be unenjoyable.

OP posts:
MrsGokWantsatidyhouse · 19/03/2010 20:47

My DH is a Science teacher and is the head of key stage 3. He was chosen for the job at interview because of his love of the subject and his ability to teach it so that all abilities of pupils can enjoy the subject and learn it.

He was away this week on a corse at a university and as he walked down a corridor he was met with a "hello sir! how are you?" It was an ex-pupil from his previous school. He was at uni. studying biology and he attributed DH teaching of the subject to him going on to uni and studying it. DH was absolutly chuffed to bits.

He is away this weekend on another course but I will ask him when he is home if there is anything she could be reading on the web.

Original poster
cococake · 19/03/2010 19:34

Spiderpig8 - I wasn't saying that anyone had the responsibility to make her work fun for her, I was offering suggestions to her in which she could make the revision of a topic enjoyable. Such as colours, diagrams, charts etc.

BG - That's what I am meaning what appears dull can in different ways be made interesting by the student. Not necessary the teacher.

BUT for the teacher to tell me it is not meant to be enjoyable, then I felt we were on completely different pages.

That's what I would of thought MB that the opportunity would of arisen, but not for this teacher as that would of made it enjoyable, and it's not meant to be enjoyable.

I agree with Riven, and an engaging teacher will cause greater results.

OP posts:
MmeBlueberry · 19/03/2010 18:36

Magnetism and sound are really fun topics. You get to play when learning these topics (I certainly do when I am teaching them).

BadGardener · 19/03/2010 18:11

you can distinguish between the material being fun in itself and having fun learning it.
I challenge anyone to convince me that Greek irregular verbs are inherently fun. But when I was an undergraduate we would get together and have Greek verb chanting parties at which a good time was had by all. Sometimes someone even brought a guitar

(I was an undergraduate learning Greek, obviously.)

spiderpig8 · 19/03/2010 17:56

I am a bit surprised you have given your DD the idea that people have a responsibility to make her work fun for her

pointydog · 19/03/2010 17:06

Takes us back to what makes a successful lesson: the amount of fun students have had or high achievement.

Of course we would ideally like both - and in many cases both can be achieved - but is that really where the emphasis lies? That all learning should be 'fun'? I feel some of that need for everything to be entertaining is a reflection of the entertainment-heavy society we live in.

I love learning too. So do my children. Riven, I don't think your statement is true at all.

MathsMadMummy · 19/03/2010 15:49

what Riven said

sarah293 · 19/03/2010 15:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

PfftTheMagicDragon · 19/03/2010 14:18

I agree Riven.

I accept that of course, there comes a point where they have to learn that sometimes, they need to just sit down and do something, and it might not be what you want to do, or the most enjoyable thing in the world. But to just say "science isn't supposed to be enjoyable" is wrong and ridiculous.

sarah293 · 19/03/2010 07:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
cococake · 19/03/2010 07:15

Unfortunately same science teacher for next 5 years.

I was surprised that she came out with bored and didn't say it was difficult. But have been drumming home to her the importance of honesty. She's not saying the subject is boring, she normally loves the subject, she was saying the last 2 topics (4 weeks work) was boring. Didn't get her normally high marks just average.

OP posts:
Original poster
cococake · 19/03/2010 07:11

The two topics were sounds and magnetisim.

I can honestly say I was very surprised at this, because if I could think of two science topics that could be interesting I would include these two.

The drawings that can be done to illustrate sound waves, the way speakers work etc, and magnetisim the fun that can be had with iron filings.

Oh dear, if the teacher says that these two topics are not meant to be enjoyable, god help us when we get to the real dull stuff.

OP posts:
cory · 19/03/2010 06:53

On the one hand, I (an academic teacher) love my subject to the point where I am usually humming little tunes to myself as I walk into the lecture room. Otoh it is a big problem these days that (some) students arrive at university expecting everything to be fun and the teacher to keep motivating them all the time, because they've never learnt to do it for themselves. They find it very hard to accept that there are parts of the course which are as dull (and necessary) as cleaning out the bathroom.

I think both the teacher and your dd are a little right and a little wrong on this one. He is perfectly within his right to point out that every serious subject will involve parts that are not instantly enjoyable, but he should be enthusing about the good bits in the same breath: she has the right not to love every subject under the earth, but should perhaps accept that some things you have to work at, love them or not- and that there are politer ways of telling somebody that you are not getting into his subject.

loumum3 · 19/03/2010 06:46

Just keep encouraging her to do her best and hope she gets a different science teacher next year... my son has recently been told that triple science is "sad" and a waste of time

GrimmaTheNome · 18/03/2010 23:34

I'm sure you can come up with a way to remember that... how about
Memory Needs Easy Method Of Nice Interesting Catchphrases.

Original poster
cococake · 18/03/2010 20:55

That's the ones. Thank you.

OP posts:
Goblinchild · 18/03/2010 20:45

'Even if it's finding those rhymes can't remember what they are called'

mnemonics. Also work well if tied into a kinaesthetic action or music.

ShrinkingViolet · 18/03/2010 20:41

DD1 had similar views of most of her science up to A level - her teachers agreed that it was pretty boring, but that the particular syllabus (21st century science) wasn't aimed at students like her (i.e. v bright), and she just had to hang on in there till A level when they promised it woudld get harder better. Which it has thankfully. And we were all quite grateful to the teachers who confirmed that it was OK not to feel especially enthused by it.

On the other hand, she had an English teacher who started a Shakespear topic by saying "you won't enjoy any of this, it's deadly dull" and carried on for the rest of the term ensuring that they all did find it incredibly dull. A student feedback form took care of that one though, and the particular teacher hasn't had a top set since to our knowledge .

Original poster
cococake · 18/03/2010 20:31

I said to my dd that in my role at work there's one mundane task that i have to do that i don't enjoy. I've created a checklist that I tick off each section of the task. The satisfaction that this gives me when all ticked meaning the mundane task is over, for the second it takes to make the mark on the paper, helps me through it.

That's what I'm meaning, in my opinion there's 'fun' ways to make dull things enjoyable. Spoonful of sugar with the medicine and all that.

OP posts:
Original poster
cococake · 18/03/2010 20:28

Interesting pointydog.

In the meeting I saw it as - right you have to learn this stuff whether you like it or not, how can we make it memorable to you to remember it in the future.

I felt the teacher's response was it's not enjoyable therefore not memorable so just learn it.

And I was surprised at this response, as to me it should always be memorable. Even if it's finding those rhymes can't remember what they are called like for planets you remember the rhyme of first letters. Or order of kings in history can be said in rote. To me not interesting things, but memorable ways to remember.

Although can't remember the word for what they are called

OP posts:
seeker · 18/03/2010 20:27

I do hate the fact that we appear to have taught our children that everything has to be fun, and if it's not, it's not worth doing.

There is stuff that just has to be done - and if children reach adulthood without realizing this, their first job is going to come as a huge shock!

pointydog · 18/03/2010 20:25

orm, it is absolutely par for the course for yr 8s to say school work is boring. It was in my day and it still is.

Do we really feel so indignant when teenagers say school work is boring?

MmeBlueberry · 18/03/2010 20:24

Learning facts doesn't have to be boring!!!

pointydog · 18/03/2010 20:22

exactly. Educating doesn't stem from the need to make it enjoyable for the people doing the learning.

The content should be a priority and any good teacher will try to deliver it in a way that will rouse interest and get people thinking.

An interesting point about targetting the interested people and not those not willing to concentrate. Doesn't quite work like that in schools. But anyway, isn't that what this thread is about? Is the teacher rubbish or is the student lacking interest and concentration?

OrmRenewed · 18/03/2010 20:21

Boring!Boring?

He must be one seriously stupid man to make science boring at that level.

However it is a sad fact of life that sooner or later she is going to encounter topics that she finds dull and is (shock horror) still going to have to do them.