Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

How ridiculous that you can pass the 11+ and not get into a grammar school.

34 replies

RockingChair · 02/03/2010 16:35

Not that mine are doing it, but I couldn't believe that there are a great many children who, after learning they have passed the exam, are not even being offered a place.

Surely they should do as they did in my day 30 plus years ago. X amount of grammar places, the top x amount passed the exam. Everyone got a place at their grammar school.

What must they be doing to these children who are distraught on learning they have not made a place.

I almost feel like a march ! Absolutely dreadful to play with these childrens minds, who now may not think they are good enough.

Will get orf me soapbox now.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
qumquat · 03/03/2010 18:24

I am very very glad I don't live in a grammar school area and have no grammar schools within remotely travellable distance.

cat64 · 03/03/2010 18:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

OurLadyOfPerpetualSupper · 03/03/2010 17:25

Where we live (Gloucestershire) we'te told reasonably soon after the exam whether the child has achieved a 'pass' score. It is also explained that there are only 120 places so your child may still not get in.

If your child does achieve a mark high enough to be within that allocation, you are told.

You are also told what position your child is on the reserve list if they're not in the top 120.

No catchment areas, so children do travel in from outside the county.

paisleyleaf · 03/03/2010 17:13

I'm in one of the counties bordering Kent that doesn't have any grammar schools. Children can do the 11+ and apply to Kent's. Mad really.

ShellingPeas · 03/03/2010 16:51

In Kent I believe that around 25% of each yearly cohort is deemed to be selective (ie passed the 11+ but it is not described as pass or fail). Because the distribution of grammar schools around the county is not evenly spread, either in location or population, it leads to some areas being oversubscribed and others undersubscribed.

The grammar schools in the County also have widely varying criteria for allocating their places. Some are super-selectives and choose on score only regardless of where the child lives - could be Mars if they score highly enough. Others work on closest distance to the school and accept all passes but would take out of county applicants as last priority. Some have designated catchment areas, some don't.

Each year in Kent around 100 children who are deemed selective and not allocated grammar places or do not get a grammar place near to where they live. It can be a complete lottery if you don't live in the right area, or score highly enough.

stripeyknickersspottysocks · 03/03/2010 16:06

We have this in the village where I live. We are in the catchment area for the grammar. Everyone who gets over a certain mark passes it but there aren't enough places for all of them. So rather than give the places to the top scoring 100 (or however many places they have) they give them to the 100 children who live nearest the school. As we're out in the sticks rather than in the town there are often kids who don't get in. I know other parents in the village who have moved or are currently up for sale to move closer to the school. Their kids are only in Yr 4 so I hope they pass, how bad would that be to go through the upheaval of moving and then your kid doesn't pass. Thankfully DD is quite dim so I don't have to worry about it.

Kneazle · 03/03/2010 16:01

I hate the system a friend of mines son has just had this experience, he passed the test with a very high score. He is the brightest child I have ever met and is very well suited to grammar. However, he was not offered a place. He and the family are devastated. He is one of two in our school that this has happened to this year. Both were achieving level five maths and english in year four. Now they both have to go to the comp where ony 23% get five GCSEs.

mattellie · 03/03/2010 15:50

Where we are, everyone who ?passes? gets a place at a grammar school. However, you may not get a place at your first choice of grammar school ? this will depend on various criteria such as distance from school, whether a sibling attends etc etc.

I?m with seeker, hate the system despite having a DC in it.

MrsBartlet · 03/03/2010 08:31

It doesn't work like that here in Essex, Rocking Chair. There is no pass or fail. The top scoring 120 girls taking the 11+ will get a place at the grammar school. Nobody knows before allocation day how they have done in the 11+ which means people can use up several of there 4 spaces on their application form with grammars when in fact there child may not have scored highly enough to be considering a grammar. Equally mad!

seeker · 03/03/2010 08:10

The whole system is iniquitous and hugely unfair and should be abolished.

And before anyone says it, yes, my dd is at a grammar school. That doesn't stop me thinking that the system should be scrapped.

Original poster
RockingChair · 03/03/2010 07:57

It just all seems a bit daft.

I suppose the only positive is that you know that you are of a certain standard, whether or not you get a place.

OP posts:
Original poster
RockingChair · 03/03/2010 07:54

Cat - I have no idea how they decide who gets the places, only that some are told they have been selected as suitable (not sure on the exact termination) then they don't get a grammar place.

A correction to how I got my grammar place all those years ago (1975 actually!) Have spoken to my mum about this and she said they put the grammar schools down if you were taking the 11+ in order of preference. Then you did the exam. When the letter came through, you were told you had passed and given the grammar school from the choices you had put down all in the one letter, on the one date. Luckily I got the first choice. So you knew everything by the one letter.

What I don't understand is the point of telling thousands of people they are suitable, then they don't get a place. Clearly, there will be a great many who have their hopes lifted for a place when there is no chance at all, for whatever reasons, I do not know.

OP posts:
cat64 · 02/03/2010 20:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

paisleyleaf · 02/03/2010 18:52

Why are children distraught? Have they been celebrating getting into a grammar school before they've been selected?
I thought grammar schools were supposed to be selective.

UnquietDad · 02/03/2010 18:24

I suppose I'd argue that there is a difference between "not suitable for grammar school" and "not enough places for grammar school". One is measured against absolute criteria; the other is dependent on current conditions.

It's like passing your driving test, only to be told there are too many cars on the road so you can't actually drive yet.

Original poster
RockingChair · 02/03/2010 17:28

but UQD - they are being told their child is not suitable pretty much by not offering them a place.

Not in as many words but what good can it do to select a child, then say see yer 3 months later.

The child and parent know they have been selected, so good enough for a grammar place, but not quite as good as others.

I don't really know the answer, apart from as you say, more grammar schools, but it was only on chatting to other parents that I found out, that getting the selection letter meant you were only over the first hurdle with another 3 odd months of agony. A case of so near and yet so far.

When i did mine, i got my letter which in those days said i passed, there was the choice of the 3 grammar schools, we put our order of preference and it was guaranteed we got one of them. So much more straightforward!

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 02/03/2010 17:25

They seem to manage it better here - you know back in October whether you've 'met the required standard' in the 11+, but if you've done that you are also told at that point if you've been allocated a place (which is basically all the in-catchment who passed plus enough out-of-catchment to fill the remaining places - that can be determined either purely on exam mark or also taking distance into account). Then there will be some number who are given a place on the reserve list - this was what happened to DD - so you're then waiting till now to find if you've got the GS place, but you've a realistic idea of whether you're likely to get it or not. So you can make your preferences sensibly, do private entrances if apt as backup rather than being in the dark.

UnquietDad · 02/03/2010 17:23

RockingChair - in theory, but you can't tell some people their child is not suitable for grammar school. More grammar schools would also solve the problem. But like that's ever going to happen.

Original poster
RockingChair · 02/03/2010 17:21

so if there are fewer grammar schools, the easiest way would be to have fewer children selected?

I know it is a huge disappointment to some who don't get the selection but at least you would know from day one, rather than hang it out for another 3 odd months, which for many spells only disappointment.

OP posts:
UnquietDad · 02/03/2010 17:19

It's because there are fewer grammar schools. Nothing to do with "catchment" I don't think. Our grammar school didn't have one.

dinosaur · 02/03/2010 17:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

OrmRenewed · 02/03/2010 17:14

Suppose. But the same thing applies to A levels doesn't it? If you get 4 A*s and still can't get your place at Uni of Whereever because every other bugger got 5As. It's a shame but inevitable.

Original poster
RockingChair · 02/03/2010 17:12

oh i fully agree with that dinosaur. I have one DD who did not take the 11+ as she would have struggled at a grammar, but now on target for a top uni.

I really don't think it would have been the same for her at a grammar. She would have felt out of her depth with all the really brainy ones, so i believe it is very important to choose the school that best suits your child rather than the most academic. But this is going off topic....

OP posts:
dinosaur · 02/03/2010 17:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

solo · 02/03/2010 17:04

I try to tell me Ds that 'you'll be where you're meant to be' in everything he does. It is hard though, I'm not denying that.

Swipe left for the next trending thread