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Original poster

What on earth should I do? Sorry - bit long

29 replies

TiggyR · 26/01/2010 16:54

My DS is in Y10. Like most 15 year olds he can be a bit loud and lary, or come across as a bit a bit sullen and insolent, but generally he is a bright and well-behaved boy who has never been in any trouble at school, beyond the odd detention.

Long story, but today the art teacher was having a general rant to the whole class for something or other, and he mistakenly thought my son was laughing, which he wasn't. (He just had 'train track' braces fitted yesterday and they feel a bit weird so he was stretching his lips back in a sort of smile-like grimace.) The teacher completely lost it, grabbed him by the clothes and slammed him against a desk, started shaking him violently and shouted really loudly and aggressively in his face. My son pushed him off, and he grabbed him and did it again. He told him to get out of the room, and when my son went, he told him to get back in, and not to walk away from him! He carried on his tirade in front of everyone, told my son he was a worthless piece of dirt and from now on he'd treat him as such. (yes, really!) Then he followed him outside, with his GSCSE coursework (a piece of painted pottery) in his hand and threatened to smash it on the floor and told him it was crap. The whole class was a bit shell-shocked.

My son was devastated and went to tell another teacher. Then several teachers all came to see him independently to find out what had happened, and he was asked to see the head and the deputy head. The other kids were asked by the head to write statements about what happened. It appears they were all totally bewildered by this unprovoked reaction, and all concurred that my son did nothing. My son said all the other teachers were very supportive and no-one tried to suggest that he may have asked for it in any way, but even if he had it's clearly unacceptable.

The Dep Head found me at the school gate and said that the matter was being handled, taken very seriously, and he'd talk to me about it when things were a bit clearer. He approached me voluntarily, and as I had only just been told by my son I was a bit shell-shocked, so didn't say much.

The thing is, this teacher is a good teacher, who gets results, but he has a hot temper and has done a similar thing before to another boy, a couple of years ago - they all still talk about it!

I know teaching can be incredibly stressful and teenagers can be hideous and highly provoking, but this is not a 'challenging' school with enormous classes and little parental support. In fact is the very opposite of that. So I can't beleive his stress is worse than any other teachers. I don't want to go in all guns blazing and insist that the man loses his job, but neither do I want to be a pushover, which is my default setting in these situations. I'm too understanding for my own good sometimes! Plus, my poor son has to continue with this teacher for his GCSE Art as he is the only one who teaches it.

What would be the norm in these situations in terms of disciplinary action? I feel like his fate could lie in my hands depending on how much of a fuss I make, and I really don't know what to do. Plus it's a (whisper it!) private school so I can't take it up with the LEA.

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claig · 26/01/2010 23:29

there is no excuse for the teacher, sure your son is a bit of a lad and mucks around but that is quite normal and the teacher's reaction is way over the top.
Unfortunately for the teacher he cracked, it must be a build up of stress in and out of school, but there is no excuse for him in his professional position of responsibility.
He is obviously too volatile and cracks too easily, he is very likely to do it again and the outcome could be far more serious.

If you remember just before Christmas there was a teacher who cracked and hit a boy with an anvil, the police and ambulance were called and the teacher was arrested. Nobody at the school could believe the teacher had done it as he was a very good teacher, well liked by all of the pupils. Human beings do sometimes crack like this and there is sometimes no obvious explanation.

Anyone who cracks like this is a danger to the pupils.

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 22:55

Thanks everyone, I think it's been very useful for me because it has helped me see that his fate is not in my hands. Which I would find very hard to live with. although I know he did wrong, I have great respect/empathy for teachers and think they have a tough job, even in schools like my DS's. God knows I've wanted to punch my son often enough! I know that irrespective of how I feel he will be dealt with as the school sees fit, and that is not my problem, or my responsibility to see justice meted out. But I do of course have the option of involving the police if they choose not to. That's my trump card, but my gut feeling is that I will not use it. I know he's a good teacher in spite of all this. I would insist on a face to face apology for my son. But if the school choose to sack him/involve the police it is their decision based on what they already know of him, and it is not to be on my conscience.

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tethersend · 26/01/2010 21:19

Tiggy, I teach in an EBD school and often have kids screaming abuse in my face. If I reacted as you outlined above, I too would get suspended and rightly so.

I think the teacher has crossed a line, and the school has recognised this.

In short, it is academic as to whether or not your son 'deserved' it; it is unacceptable professional conduct on the part of the teacher.

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 21:06

I don't know at the moment, but for what it's worth here is the full run-down according to my son:

He mucked up the painting on his pottery so he asked the teacher if he could paint it over in white and start again. Teacher said yes.His friend then starting randomly swirling paint over it in silly patterns becuase they knew it was going to be re-done anyway.

Another boy defaced someone else's work with a blob of paint for a joke.

The teacher started his rant to the whole class saying he was fed up with them spoiling one another's work on purpose, not taking the work seriously etc.

My son unfortunately picked that moment to 'pull a face' due to his uncomfortable new brace, which the teacher misinterpreted as him smiling/laughing.

He started shouting at him, saying 'You want to laugh at me do you? Go on, laugh at me, Laugh then!'

My son was genuinely confused, so he just said 'Why?' (but it possibly came out in a bit of a narky way!)

The teacher started screaming 'Why what? Why what? Obviously the answer should have been 'Why, Sir?' but under the circumstances my son was a bit dumbstruck!

Then he grabbed him by the shirt and pushed him into a desk, and started shaking him hard and shouting in his face, calling him offensive names etc. My son wrestled him off, and shouted 'Get off me!'

The teacher then grabbed him and started again. Told him to get out. He went, but was then told not to walk away!

The teacher said 'Your a stupid/worthless piece of shit (or something, can't remember exactly) and from now on that's how I'm going to treat you.'

Then he sent him out of the room again, grabbed his pottery, followed him out and said 'See this? This is crap. I'm going to smash on the floor - that's what I think of your work.' (Again, that's not verbatim, but it's the best I can remeber it right now.)

My son walked off, upset and found another teacher he could confide in, and the rest is as I said before.

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tethersend · 26/01/2010 21:03

"The thing is, this teacher is a good teacher, who gets results, but he has a hot temper and has done a similar thing before to another boy, a couple of years ago - they all still talk about it!"

A good teacher does not slam their pupils onto desks or threaten to smash their work. No matter what the pupil says to them.

The teacher may have had a thousand reasons to 'snap'. This does not make it OK. His reasons for snapping may be wholly unrelated to school.

The law states that the use of force in schools must be 'reasonable, proportionate and necessary'. I am only familiar with the law in state schools- however, it does sound as if the school are taking this seriously.

MmeBlueberry · 26/01/2010 20:43

What is the teacher's side of the story?

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 20:43

I don't know the proper details of the first incident - it was a long while ago and I suspect it has become 'embroidered' over the years.

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niamhanddanismum · 26/01/2010 20:37

I would ask that your son be moved to another class with a different teacher at the very least. To be honest I can't see the school letting the teacher back especially not as it is a second offence.

StillCrazyAfterAllTheseYears · 26/01/2010 20:31

Hi again, TiggyR.

You're obviously going out of your way to see both possible sides of the situation, but (as others have said) you really don't need to concern yourself about the teacher's wellbeing or mental state. I imagine he'll have a union representative or similar to represent his interests.

On the question of the police cautioning the teacher, I think the answer is much the same as whether you can insist that the head teacher/governing body sacks the teacher. You can't dictate to them how they fulfil their statutory and other responsbilities. But you can ask, at the meeting, whether the police have been notified and you can (if you wish) notify them if the school hasn't/won't. The police will then decide what action (possibly up to and including prosecution) is appropriate.

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 20:10

I know it should be irrelevant how his behaviour is, a teacher is expected to rise above it, but I'm trying to get my head around what could have pushed this man over the edge. Obviously I don't want to think badly of my son but I want to understand what led to it. I'm bewildered!

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PixieOnaLeaf · 26/01/2010 19:50

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Slambang · 26/01/2010 19:37

Great that the school have said that ds was not at all at fault and that the teacher is suspended. Sounds like they really want to sort it out.

How is your ds? I guess he must be feeling quite shaken up. I guess facing school tomorrow must be pretty dauntng for him.

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 18:46

Need to elaborate there - he's going through a very grunty uncommunicative phase and can come across verbally as quite sullen. If he feels embarrassed or defensive he gets a bit monosyllabic and gruff, and displays slightly confrontational body language, but it's just a front for his lack of confidence and articulation. Normal for his age I guess. He is very much a 'lad' and sometimes messes around with the class clowns, which I can imagine gets irritating for a teacher (it irritates me!) but this have never spilled over into serious bad behaviour/subordination on his part, and the head knows that. Generally he's bright and hard-working and well thought of I think.

I like this teacher - he had a great relationship with my older son who's left now. I'm so confused. Thanks for your sound advice folks.

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Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 18:36

Oh, and thanks slambang - sorry, crossed posts!

Quick update, the head has just rung me to say that the teacher has been put on temporary suspension whilst it is investigated. He also said that whilst my son has been being a bit of a handful lately, (got detention yesterday) in this particular instance he was absolutely not at fault. And I use the term 'bit of handful' in its real sense, it is not a euphemism for 'total and utter nightmare ASBO boy'! Just in case anyone was wondering!

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bellabelly · 26/01/2010 18:25

He shouldn't be teaching if he's snapped like this. Next time it could be worse. You must not feel even slightly guilty - ultimately it will be for the head/governors/police/courts to decide. If I were this man I'd be beside myself at having behaved in such a way and I would resign in any case (am an experienced teacher and have worked in "tough" state schools - am not saying we should all be saints but this is beyond anything I've come across tbh). Your poor DS, hope he isn't too upset now.

waitingforbedtime · 26/01/2010 18:21

Perhaps he is having a breakdown or perhaps he was the LAST time he did this and he didnt get help then and wont now or perhaps he's just a bully. Whatever, your son is teh priority not him and there can be no excuses. Like someone else said, this is assault and i would be treating it as such and in fact, possibly go to the police myself now.

Slambang · 26/01/2010 18:17

I don't want to stir controversy so please take this as comment rather than criticism but crikey, woman you are paying a truck load of money for ds's education. As a consumer you have the right to expect that this education is of an acceptable standard.

Slambang · 26/01/2010 18:12

Tiggy - if he is having a break down he needs time out of the class, but that is not your call so you mustn't worry about him. Other people will make that decision so don't feel guilty. Your role is to support your ds.

You sound very kind.

Hassled · 26/01/2010 18:12

What a nightmare. I second StillCrazy - it won't be down to you whether the guy loses his job or not, but you need to know that the school are following their own procedures, and if that involves police involvement then so be it. It doesn't sound to me that he should be teaching at all in the future.

Rombouts · 26/01/2010 18:08

if your ds had assaulted the teacher, the police would have been brought in and your ds expelled and/or charged with assualt.

I hope the school does deal with this quickly along the same lines.

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 18:04

Thanks, StillCrazy, that's exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. I was intending to insist on a meeting, but I can't think straight at the moment about what I should be asking for/expecting in terms of outcome. Would it be OTT to insist on the police at least cautioning him, or am I being foolish/naive NOT to do that? I need to write myself a script with bullet points so I don't end up gabbling wildly or being fobbed off. Perhaps he's having a breakdown -see - already I'm feeling guilty!

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Slambang · 26/01/2010 17:58

Do NOT let this man get away with this. He should not be teaching if he can't control himself. I was a teacher so am well aware of the stresses etc but this is way over the line. This is assault.

On the positive side it sounds as though the school is treating it seriously but do not let them think this one can be pushed under the carpet with apologies and warnings.

I would be expecting a meeting with the head and possibly head of governors tomorrow. I would expect the teacher to be suspended while the incident is investigated. I would expect the school at the very least to be providing alternative art provision for ds and the rest of the class.

And I agree I would report it to the police so the incident is logged. If the school does not do its all to ensure the teacher is removed you may need the evidence.

I would also ask ds to write down exactly what happened, everything he can remember now. The more these things are discussed and questioned, the less reliable the memory can be. He may remember small details now that will be forgotten in the coming furore.

And give your ds a hug

StillCrazyAfterAllTheseYears · 26/01/2010 17:52

All my experience is of state schools, but in a state school the outcome of a disciplinary case for assaulting a student would be anything up to and including dismissal. Would it be different in a private school? Surely not.

Does your school publish its staff handbook and other policies? What arrangements do they have for (eg) staff disciplinary hearings? Do the governors have a role here?

It sounds as if the deputy head is on the case, but (if I were in your shoes) I might ask for a meeting, at which I would ask (as calmly as I could) what precisely was meant by 'being taken very seriously'. Will there be an investigation? Is disciplinary action being considered, etc etc? I don't think you can demand any particular outcome, but I don't think it could hurt to let the school know that you are taking a close interest and expect the matter to be dealt with firmly rather than minimised or hushed up (not that there's any suggestion of that yet).

Original poster
TiggyR · 26/01/2010 17:50

magentadreamer - I know, when you consider that Amy Winehouse has just been found guilty in a court of law for assaulting someone, by doing nothing more serious than this, I'm just a bit shell-shocked that I could have the power to put this man in the dock or end his career. I really don't like it, and I don't know what I should be thinking right now. So many times I've read about teacher's careers in ruins because of manupulative badly behaved children and parents who refuse to believe their child was at fault in any way, and the teacher always 'snaps' after months/years of provocation in a daily battle zone. And they've had my sympathy. In my heart of hearts I know this is different but I'm still confused.

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EldonAve · 26/01/2010 17:47

I would be expecting the teacher to be fired tbh
If not I'd be lodging a complaint with the police