GCSE Options - impact on Oxbridge application

They sound good to me Calvi.

Re Economics at GCSE, DS's (very high ranking) Grammar school offers this as well as Business studies, which really surprised me as I thought them both "soft". They were adamant that with all the compulsory subjects these were fine, and no by taking them had had any Uni offer compromised (and they do have a high Oxbridge result).

DD took 11 GCSE's, 7 Compulsory subjects (triple science, Maths, Eng Lang & Lit, Philosophy & Ethics) + 4 options of Geography, History & 2 languages. She is now at Cambridge. She is also aware that a lot of her friends at other Uni's have a lot more free time & "life"-so make sure you really are dedicated to you subject as the workloads are very intense.

Arionater

DS has chosen Physics for As and continuing iwth Economics,Maths and History at A2. He wants to study either History and Economics or Economics and Management at Oxford. In your or anyone elses opinion are these wise choices - presumably he can only talk knowledgably about the subjects at interview if he has studied them at advanced level?

I think that often it's not that a subject is considered as 'soft' but that it isn't relevant to the Oxford/Cambridge course. Eg. on that Trinity College link it said they preferred English Literature to Language, I Think it's likely this is because Cambridge offers only an English Literature course, in which case the choice to just study Language at A level and then apply to do English at Cambridge would seem a bit odd. Equally the Modern Languages course are incredibly Literature heavy, so if you don't show an interest in literature in your A level choices you probably won't like the course.

I went to Cambridge and my impression was that academic ability was assumed, the way that you could set yourself apart at interview was to show passion and enthusiasm for your chosen subject, learning in general, and whatever extra-curricular activities turn you on. I disagree with the previous poster who siad good candidates get in and bad candidates don't. Sadly plenty of good candidates don't get in as practically everyone who applies is a good candidate (this was also the opinion of my Cambridge tutor, who did not enjoy having to choose between all the good candidates!).

I don't think any of your child's choices will have an impact...Cambridge is more interested in aptitude and enthusiasm than the exact set of GCSEs you've done.

I did 13 GCSEs and I'm not sure it impressed them; they were more interested in my A-level results.

Interesting that Oxbridge doesn't ask for a modern language anymore...surely most schools offer modern languages. All the ones around us do.

Infact, my old comp. offers a choice of 6 languagues at GCSE level: French, Spanish, Latin, German, Russian, Japanese. Some of them aren't timetabled and you have to do them in after school clubs.

If music GCSE if regarded as 'soft' then it must have changed. I spent far longer composing the music for my GSCE than I probably devoted to maths, physics, chemistry and biology put together.

I wouldn't worry ShrinkingViolet - DD2 took Dance GSCE in year 10 and got a B but she has another 10 GCSEs at A/A* so I'm presuming she doesn't need to bin the Oxford application on the strength of it

DD1 is slightly concerned that she'll be "marked down" for having done Media Studies - as an extra in Y10 for the top English set. I'm trying to reassure her that it won't make any difference (she has another 10 GCSEs at A/A*), and the fact that she did it a year early will make it obvious it was done as an extra. Am I right do you think?

Its amazing the amount of variety between schools in the way they allow options to be chosen - right from insisting on a specialism subject (PE or technology), choosing subjects in year 8 and offering a vast array of "modern" subjects. I'm quite relieved that my DC's school actually offer very little choice. English x 2, Maths, Science x2 (or 3), RE, a language and ICT short course were all compulsory. That left 3 choices which was enough to follow an area of interest without going too much off track. I'm hoping that when DS chooses next year it will be the same.

My friends DC go to a school that offers a massive amount of choice in options - she was given the weekly timetabled hours and then invited to "fill in" the choices with only English, Maths and Science x 2 compulsory. So rather than using columns they had the hours per subject for both full and short course GCSEs for all the other subjects and as her DD couldn't make up her mind what to do she has taken lots of short courses which can cause problems if you want to take the A level afterwards.

What about subjects such as Greek and Latin that are only offered at some institutions? Do they get you more Brownie points?

I think it is very unfair (as has been discussed on other threads) that lack of opportunity to study certain subjects, let alone French - which seems a basic part of a normal person's education - can act against you.

It's one thing choosing to study Mickey Mouse GCSEs and quite another being forced to take them because that's all on offer.

senua and MIFLAW. On modern languages it is true that Oxford & Cambridge recently dropped the GCSE modern language requirement, however it does seem that that requirement is beginning to creep back in at some places. For example UCL states that:

"For 2012 entry, UCL will require a GCSE Modern Language at grade C or above for all of its programmes. For the minority of students that will not have had an opportunity to study a GCSE Modern Language, UCL will provide opportunities to meet the language requirement once enrolled at UCL."

I would imagine the traditional subjects would definately trump the 'soft' subjects.

I don't think the admissions dept just see the 8 As or whatever, but, as said before, they do take into account the schools attended, ie some schools may not offer enough traditional subjects for a pupil to get 8 A/A*s in them.

My DCs' school is very successful in getting pupils to Oxbridge and as far as I can see the Oxbridge colleges are scrupulously fair in their admissions procedures.

But to get to the nitty gritty, would, say, 6 As and 2Bs in traditional 'difficult' subjects trump 8 As including subjects such as Computing, Dance and Citizenship?

I have the fear that all the admissions department sees is the 8As.

(I know now people do up to 13 GCSEs - in my day there was a limit of 8 O Levels.)

NL3 - the list looks fine. I work at one half of "Oxbridge" at the moment and was at the other one until recently; I've interviewed at both and I can't remember ever querying a GCSE subject choice in itself, and certainly not for someone doing a good range with plenty of strong academic choices in there. We are aware that how many GCSEs people take, and how "academic" the options are is often determined by the school, so we try not to judge by it if to do so would be unfair.

What does matter is the grades he gets in them: almost all candidates have all As/As at GCSE and either have or are predicted all As at A-levels. That doesn't mean you can't get in with the odd GCSE B or C in a less relevant subject - that's what interviews and so on are for - but it is noted. (And again, placed in the context of a school - an Etonian with a single B and only a few As is, obviously, a much dodgier candidate than someone with less good grades from a much less good school.)

In short: 'soft' subjects can work against you at A-level, where you only have a few to choose, but I really wouldn't worry about it at GCSE. It matters more that he enjoys it and that his interest in his subjects leads to him reading around, thinking about how subjects connect, etc.

"he looks for students who look at the world with a different perspective"

That's what DS's teachers say about him and why his science teacher feels he would be a good candidate.

There you go, I stand corrected.

I would still be surprised if Oxbridge cared overly much about GCSE options, though, unless every single one was in pony trekking, tagging and retail studies.

MIFLAW: you are out of date on Languages. Since a Language is no longer compulsory at KS4, a lot of schools have dropped Language GCSEs. The ones who have kept Languages tend to be Grammar, independent or leafy suburb. Oxbridge has therefore been bounced into having to drop the requirement, lest they appear elitist.

Piffle, the Japanese is something she wants to do (not sure exactly why, but she does tend to be drawn to different and rather non-conformist subjects). She signed herself up to the classes nearly a term late and has worked really hard to catch up with the others - I've not seen her so fired up about anything for a while. I actually think it may be more suited to her than French as it seems to be a very phonetic, rule-based language whereas French is very irregular. The Japanese seems to be well taught and she has a good raport with the teacher also.

The maths sounds good - wish my ds had the opportunity to do it, he is spending this year treading water in maths again (but looking forward to starting A level maths + f. maths next year).

They always said, too, that having three A levles that were a good "fit" with each other (eg not woodwork, pony trekking and Ancient Greek) made you a better candidate, but then school teachers say a lot of things.