Entrance Exams - am in purgatory with waiting!

Well, my ds has finally got an interview date on Monday for his Kingston Grammar interview, just hope the interviewer likes chess because that's all he'll want to talk about...
No news from C of L yet.
Mrshighandmighty - the six former whizz round the school is a brilliant tip, thanks

This is aeons ago, but I think you can try too hard to stand out - it's important for the kids to be themselves. Sometimes a genuine spark does better than a 'conditioned' right answer.

I remember at my school interview being asked what I'd do with a million pounds. I said I'd buy a jumbo jet, turn it into a house and fly around the world in it with my friends and family (then remembered to say I'd give some money to charity too. I got a big scholarship). Another friend's mum told her not to say she liked Enid Blyton. However, she admitted the truth, and the interviewer heartily agreed with her.

Those are some great tips Mrshighandmighty. Sounds as though your DS's interview went really well - well done to him and to you!

RatherBeOnThePiste - DS has KGS interview on Friday and it's a "general chat" which I know someone on here said was a good sign so please keep everything crossed for us! And if anyone has any final further interview tips, particularly for KGS, do hand them over!!

Would disagree with dbd. Each school has its USP. Some really are scary posh. But similarly some Heads, aware that their target market is will be those buying their way out of pool quality (failing) state provision, can sound like used car salesman. Acknowledging that private education was expensive but then explaining what you got and why it was worth the money. There is a huge variety.

I can understand why a school might prefer grounded middle class kids to the super rich, and I think many do. (Or at least try their best to select kids who will benefit most from the education on offer regardless of the car their parent's drive.) The problem obviously is fee levels, which implies a certain level of affluence. A lot of schools make real efforts to provide bursaries, and some make a real effort to keep fees down. This includes GDST schools, but also newer schools and consortia, who have recognised there is a gap in the market.

You suggest that there is a social hierarchy of schools. Yet living not too far away I would suggest that it also works in the opposite direction, with parents preferring Putney or Wimbledon High to the more glittery Hammersmith girls schools, or Emanuel to the Dulwich schools, in part because they appear more grounded. (Lower fees help too obviously!)

still waiting for letter re i/v or no i/v here.... aaaaagh!

Anyone had their interviews yet - just wondering how everyone is getting on?

deadbeatdad - I agree that you get certain types of parents at the different "levels" of schools - that's dictated by the fee levels as much as anything. But I don't think the schools themselves discriminate against children from less well-off backgrounds, which was your original point. In fact I've seen the absolute opposite - heads and staff being very welcoming indeed to my state school DS and some, eg Hampton, making a big point of their high state school intake.

I have found that it is more market economics than social hierarchy.

If anyone has genuine difficulty in affording educational visits, they need to speak privately with the bursar. The school is not going to advertise any kind of hardship fund as that will open the floodgates for both resentment and further claims.

It is usually the condition of a bursary that you speak to absolutely no one about it, or you break your contract with the school, and the same deal with any other help you get.

I have clearly be visisting different schools to everyone. else. Sutton Trust do show that independent schools take DC who wouldn't otherwise afford basic fees but then do little to facilitate such children from full participation in trips etc. In my part of London there is a clear social hieraracy of schools or rather parents who apply for DC - which is not necessarily linked to academIc performance but the two are conflated in local folklore by aspirant parents. Has no one else noticed in open days etc that the parents plummy accents and the DC uniforms get more elaborate as you move from good local state school, to small independent, to GDST school to the like of LEH, St Paul's and Godolphin.

When we were young, my brother did exactly this, he transferred into a prep school. He failed the 11+ having been told he was a dead cert, but on the day he was quite literally overwhelmed with nerves. He was able to take the side step into a prep, and although as I fondly remember he had to wear some ludicrous hat and blazer combo, it gave him the confidence and a massive boost. At 13+ he did exceptionally well in CE into some good school on a scholarship.

I do feel for you and wish you well in telling your son the news about the interviews. I was also going to suggest the possibility of transferring to a prep school for 2 years and having a go at 13+. Some boys need more time to mature and learn how to perform in exams. It would help him cope with the rejections if you have already some view of the possibility of this. A second plan is necessary. He needs to know that every problem has a solution and you just have to be more creative.

Do also get your headteacher's view. They may be able to help out.

Re 'lingering snobbery' I am sure (know)this is not the case. The best schools are bending over to accept the best young minds irrespective of their background and bursaries at the 'poshest' schools are very generous. Most exam papers are produced by companies for a school.

There you go... Hoi poloi indeed

Hi dbd, my ds had already achieved level 5s in all areas by the end of year 5 and is on the G&T register so I don't think the school report would have been the issue.

Interestingly, although he had been taught all the
Maths topics that aren't usually taught in year 6 (adding fractions, algebra etc) he said none of them really came up in the exams. These would be the areas where a state NC educated child who hadn't been tutored would typically trip up.

I think it came down to underperforming on the day and unfortunately he wasn't given the chance to show what he is capable of in an interview.

I'm still upset about the latter and no closer to knowing how best to tell him without destroying his confidence. Ho hum.

Hi dbd, my ds had already achieved level 5s in all areas by the end of year 5 and is on the G&T register so I don't think the school report would have been the issue.

Interestingly, although he had been taught all the
Maths topics that aren't usually taught in year 6 (adding fractions, algebra etc) he said none of them really came up in the exams. These would be the areas where a state NC educated child who hadn't been tutored would typically trip up.

I think it came down to underperforming on the day and unfortunately he wasn't given the chance to show what he is capable of in an interview.

I'm still upset about the latter and no closer to knowing how best to tell him without destroying his confidence. Ho hum.

Most schools at 11+ use ISEB papers, or their own indistinguishable clones of them. These are similar to Sats although more rigourous. They are very politically correct, eg 'Sarah and Himesh were investigating plant growth....'.

Even at 13+ scholarship, they are just trying to identify academic potential. They really don't mind admitting the hoi polloi.

I think so - haven't you noticed the fine social differences between schools of all kinds - from state to faith to independent. Sure kids from state schools get in but it is not all about the exams at 11 is it. It's about the interview, the school report etc

If the OP DS was high performing in NC terms then maybe there might be another explaination. Just a question really.

You move in different worlds to most of us, dbd.

really dbd?
can't speak for schools i know nothing about but certainly at city they are only interested in academic potential at the exam stage... 2/3 of the 11+ entrants come from state primaries... from a very wide range of backgrounds.

OP - May I ask as guidance for next year what sort of NC level your DS was achieving at his state school.

From what I have seen entry to some of the so-called 'academic schools' (which often means to many posh schools) is as much about fine gradations of social class. You can see it in some of the questions in past papers: size of a hockey stick; conversion to Carribbean dollars etc and interview questions.

If your DS is targeted for say a 5b end of year 6 you may have just come up against some of the lingering snobbery that still attached to some parts of our educational system.

OP - May I ask as guidance for next year what sort of NC level your DS was achieving at his state school.

From what I have seen entry to some of the so-called 'academic schools' (which often means to many posh schools) is as much about fine gradations of social class. You can see it in some of the questions in past papers: size of a hockey stick; conversion to Carribbean dollars etc and interview questions.

If your DS is targeted for say a 5b end of year 6 you may have just come up against some of the lingering snobbery that still attached to some parts of our educational system.

2010herewego, what a miserable few days you've had - I really feel for you and your poor ds.

Ds is at a prep school and every year quite a few join Y7 to retake entrance exams they failed first time round. The school is very successful at getting them in at 13+ so that may be a good option for your ds if CoL doesn't come off.

I agree with the others that schools often do have places even if they claim to be full. I think this year has been bizarrely competitive - a few boys at ds's prep haven't made it to interview for one local school and there are some real surprises amongst them.

Thanks for the kind words and advice Needmoresleep and Stillfeel18.
DS is in a state school and I hadn't thought about putting him into for the last 2 years of a prep. I know a few children locally who are at prep and have also applied for the grammar schools so I imagine that in March when the offers are out there may be places freed up from september.
I will give that some serious thought and perhaps make appointments to talk to the heads of some of them in March.
I don't think DS would mind going to a prep for 2 years and sitting CE, as he knows most of the local preps are very good schools so it wouldn't feel like a failure.
Still harbouring very faint hopes for CoL, but I think I am a little deluded!

2010herewego - I really feel for you. The rejection feels horrible, especially when (as in your case) you know that your DS is clever enough for certain schools but on the day just doesn't happen to quite get the required number of marks. Is he in a state school? In which case, would you consider putting him in the last 2 years of a prep school? (Probably a horrible prospect to go through it all again, but it's a possiblity I've always had at the back of my mind as I know that some prep schools empty out a bit as people leave for grammars at 11). I hope you get good news soon but if not, I'm sure that Needmoresleep is right - at the end of the day, much as schools all like to give the impression that they're full to the brim with huge waiting lists, there will be spaces here and there.