late applications and appeals process for secondary schools

Thank you so much, I think I found it!
i think it’s best if I copy and paste my post onto that new thread so it can reach more people!

If you have a thread open then the + symbol will say "add post", meaning add a post to the end of the open thread.

To add a new thread you need to be at forum level, not thread level. As the previous poster said, click on "Secondary Education" at the top of the page. Then you'll be at forum level, and the + symbol will say "Add thread".

You'll soon get used to it. 🙂

Go up to the top.
Where it says Talk > secondary education is there a down chevron / if so click and you may find start a new thread there.

I actually can’t find it, is there an app I can download and use it from there is may be easier

thank you

If you are using the website it is a big blue button near the top of the page that says "Start new thread"

Ah, sorry this is my first time using this. But for me at the bottom it says “add post” and that’s what I pressed on to write a message. I’m not sure where to find add thread

@SannaMom21, for future reference, and in the interests of Mumsnet etiquette, you should really have started a new thread for your question, not posted to a zombie thread from 7 years ago. You do that by clicking the "Add thread" button.

You only need to call the council once offers come out next March to check that you are on the waiting lists for the schools you want. No need to do anything until then.

Thank you so much for replying
i will call the council, but specifically should I be asking ?
( sorry it’s because this is my first child I’ve never done secondary school application so I’m new to how this works)

The waiting list is ordered by the admission criteria alone. They cannot take when you went onto the waiting list into account. So, if the waiting list is ordered according to score, your daughter will be ahead of anyone who got a lower score than her, even if they applied before you. If the school gives priority to pupils who qualify for pupil premium, she will be ahead of anyone who doesn't qualify for pupil premium even if they scored more than her.

Unless you get your first choice, your daughter should automatically go on the waiting list for any school you have named as a higher preference than the school offered - if you aren't offered any of your preferred schools, that means you should be on the waiting list for all of them. It is worth phoning the council when offers come out to make sure your daughter is on the correct waiting lists.

Hi there
Can someone please possibly give me some support and advice, my daughter did the 11+ exam for Birmingham grammar schools and she passed with the score of 213. But unfortunately we missed the deadline for school admissions which we are really stressed about because we really want her to get into a grammar school.
but I heard that the council look at late applicants after the 1st of March and we get the results of whether we got in or not on the 18th. We applied for 4 grammar schools(because we thought as shes passed she may still have a chance) and 2 state schools. We don’t actually mind which school they send her as long as it’s from one of 6 choices we made because we really don’t like the other schools in our area due to how they perform academically.
so on the 18th when we get the news of which school they’ve chosen, can we still call up the grammar schools and ask to put my daughter on the waiting list? But does that not put her lower down the waiting list because parents who got the letter on the 1st of March probably put their child in the waiting list?
is the order of the waiting list based on who calls in first to be put on or based on scores?

also do you know roughly where she’ll be on the waiting list with her score. The pass score was 200. And she’s on free school meals too and they did say the give more consideration to pupil premium students( students on free school meals)

lastly do you know any other people who still get into one of their 6 choices as a late applicant?

please could someone give me some info I’m really worried for my daughter

thank you

@blu my daughter sat her test a month prior. The test were not the same. I think fair banding is based on distance im my area aswell but the only way to be considered is having sat a test. My daughter was not told to answer all questions or make sure the answers were right just to put my friends daughters name and answer a few questions so something is on paper in order for the application to be seen.

@prh47bridge. Thank you for your advice I will email the council. She could not have got a higher or lower score because in her application she only sat the test once so her results will be the results on the test sat in her name. it was not about trying to gain an advantage for my daughter to get into the school. Her application remains the same and all the information is correct and her score gain on her test is her actual score. sitting the test in my friends daughters name would not help my daughters application in any way. It was purely to give my friends daughters application a chance to be seen as no test meant her application is withdrawn without concideration.

In our area the 'fair banding' schools base the admissions on distance within each bands. Some bands have a wider distance criteria than others. If my child missed out by one place to a child who could have got into a that band because they were sitting the test for the second time I would be furious, and would appeal on those grounds.

If the OP's dd sat the test in her own name first then I would see there is no issue.

OP, if your dd did 'her' test first you could argue that no other children were disadvantaged by her familiarity with the paper?

I made the mistake of thinking you were talking about a grammar school. If this was a fair banding test rather than an entrance test that puts us into a different ball game.

Firstly I struggle to see any way your daughter has gained an advantage. Even if she has gained a higher score and ended up in a higher band as a result of your actions it won't have made any real difference to her chance of getting a place. The nearest the Admissions Code comes to dealing with this kind of situation is when it talks about fraudulent and misleading applications. The Code is clear that if such an application is found the council cannot simply reject it. They must consider it again using the correct information and award a place if the child qualifies. So while I can understand the council's desire to punish you for your actions I don't think they have the right to do so.

I would email the council pointing out that your daughter has not gained an advantage and asking them to reconsider their decision in light of the Admissions Code paragraph 2.12. If they refuse please come back here for further advice.

Your friend is in a weaker position because her daughter has not sat the test. However in my view they should be dealing with her in the same way as they handle other children who miss the test. Unfortunately that probably means she won't get a place.

@Blu yeah

So did your dd sit the test twice, once as herself and once in her friend's name?

@titchy-thanks. I wasnt asking for Sympathy, just advice. The exam could not be failed or passed. A paper just needed to be submitted even if it just had a name on and no questions were answered.

@admission-thanks alot for your advice. It wasnt a 11+ exam for a grammer sch, it was a non verbal reasoning test to put applicants into ability bands. So they choose a selection of children of all abilities each year. The test doesnt help your application with regards to be offered a place but if you dont sit the test you cannot be considered for a place.
Her application was only removed from that particular school and she can still be considered for other schools on her application.

@prh47bridge- thanks alot for your advice. I guessed that the Appeal would probably not be successful due to the circumstances but I am glad im still able to try. I will also try to re-apply in Sept and just see how it goes.

You and your friend have the right to appeal once your daughters have been refused admission. I would expect the appeals to fail. Having said that you have a slightly better case for appeal than your friend in that your friend's application was clearly fraudulent whereas your actions did not affect your own application. I think you can therefore argue that they have overstepped the mark in withdrawing your application. There is a small chance that argument might work but I would regard it as a long shot.

As for the waiting list, that is an interesting question. My immediate reaction is that your daughters won't be allowed onto the waiting list. I suspect that will be the view taken by the school as well. However, you are legally allowed to apply for any school at any time. So there is an argument that if you apply again in September they should treat it as a new application and ignore what has happened. But I'm afraid I think this is also a long shot.

My gut feeling is that you have burned your bridges with this school and won't be able to get a place for your daughter. And I would rate your friend's chances even lower than yours.

By entrance exam are we talking about the 11+ for a state school?
As the places for schools are not allocated till 1st March, what should have happened is that daughter's friends exam results should have been withdrawn. That therefore means that they did not get a result for the 11+ and therefore will not be considered for a place at that school or any other grammar school. However her application form must be considered for other schools that were put down as preferences and also for waiting lists. The way you describe it, it is as though the application form has been completely withdrawn and that should not happen.

The situation surrounding your daughter is somewhat more open to question. She took the exam and presumably has achieved a score which allows them to be considered for a grammar school. One could argue that she should not be penalised for doing something stupid for somebody else but on the other hand she effectively had two opportunities to take the test and therefore could have gained an advantage.

The position here can be considered to be similar to the situation where somebody cheats via using an incorrect address. What happens there, given the time of year relative to the date when the allocations are made, is that the correct address will be used and they will or will not get in based on that address. Further down the time line if they get a place based on an incorrect address, they will have the place removed. The correct address will then be put into play and they might get a place based on the waiting list. They will also be allowed to go to appeal over losing the place but i have never know a panel be too sympathetic to any argument that they should get a place at the school in those circumstances.

The problem I have here is that by completely removing your daughter's application, as you describe it, the Council have stopped her from being considered in the normal round of allocations and then in any waiting list situation. I am not sure that I find this fair but on the other hand it was a very stupid thing to do and that you allowed it to happen.

You cheated. The consequences are you lose any right to that place. You got caught. No sympathy here sorry.

You cant say it was your decision and it's not fair that your child is penalised - everyone could come up with that one. You're responsible for your child, not the council.

Thanks for your feedback @titchy.
I made that dumb decision not my daughter so some helpfull advice would be appreciated.

Thanks for your feedback @TeenAndTween