Richmond-upon-Thames: great primaries, shite secondaries. Discuss

Well I was wrong - Richmond do now have a Tory council!!

And they have stated they would:

"Work to bring 6th forms into local schools, by setting up, at once, an 11-18 Forum, involving key local bodies."

www.richmondboroughconservatives.com/index.php?sectionid=100&pagenumber=439

Willow - As you say Richmond college is in meltdown and now Esher College are prioritising Elmbridge applicants over Richmond applicants. The Tory councillors' say that any Richmond school can have a sixth form, if they get in. Don't think a Tory council is very likely, though.

Grey Court are planning to offer Latin as an extra curricular subject for GCSE if that helps anyone. I don't know if many comprehensives do this as well but I'm really pleased its going to be an option.

Willow, totally agree with you, Sheen will eventually turn around, but sadly it will take time and not soon enough for us. I currently have a child in Christ's who leaves this September which means I didn't qualify for the sibling policy for my other child. Luckily I put Grey Court as my 2nd choice and got in last week (having been 30th on waiting list the week before). I went to look around Grey Court today and I was completely bowled over. The only advice I can give to any parent, is to make sure you look around a school during school hours, not on an open evening when they wheel in the brightest, plumiest year 7 children. Sadly Christ's school now seems to be dominated by the foundation places, so unless you want to start going to church for a year prior to admission, you don't stand a hell in chance of getting in. I know where i'll be sending my child this year and it definitely won't be Sheen

AnnyBee - I totally disagree with you.
I went to look around Shene School just before Easter and it confirmed everything i'd feared and worse.

The school has no discipline (one child walking around in no uniform), the head commented that although an A Class student, they couldn't get him to wear a uniform .... what's that all about ?

There were about a dozen year 11 students walking into the assembly 20 mins after it had started and weren't pulled up.

My son and I hated it, he wouldn't even enter the classrooms he felt so intimated by the other children.

The corridors were littered with crisp packets and uneaten sweets.

Also the school is having major building works from 2011, which means the school will be a building site for 2/3 years.

Unfortunately only 20% of the school is local borough children, the other 80% is out of borough.

Sadly the school needs to close the admissions for one year an re-open it. Making it an academy isn't going to make any difference, just look at Whitton and HCC.

AnnyBee- well said.
I'm in Kingston, and we are in a similar position with Coombe Boys- 5 years into a Federation with Coombe Girls (outstanding school)
You wouldn't believe the face people pull when you say your ds is going there- and you're happy about it.
"Can't you afford private?" said one parent at the school gates.
Yes the boys in year 10/11 may still be challenging- but the 7,8 and 9's are from local schools, mainly with parents who support and want their sons to do well.
Yes the exam results are nothing special- but wait till current year 9's are taking GCSEs.
I am proud my ds is going there- I've already signed up to the PFA and the school know if there are disruptive elements who are stopping my ds from learning- I will be in, as will other parents.

From Mona Adams, Community Governor, Shene School

According to the US President and our own David Cameron, change is the
life blood of progress. Obama is already doing it doing it and Cameron
is convinced that his Conservative government, given the chance, will do
it, come May 7. Change is in the air. But change doesn't happen
overnight. It takes time to do - and it sometimes takes time for
outsiders to absorb. Over the last two years Shene School has changed

• academically, pastorally, behaviourally. We are now one of the

• even, we feel, someone as ill-informed and out of touch as 'Willow'.

It is the same across London in Blackheath/Greenwich. Here people either tutor and try to get an out of borough grammar school place in neighbouring Bexley or Bromley or pay or pray.

I think it is just a London thing.

Exactly the same here in Reigate/Redhill - is it a Surrey thing? Rich folk think there's no point in sending their kids to private primaries so the schools are full of clever rich children who are all getting extra coaching at home and are doing really well, then they all go off to private schools leaving the less clever/less well off behind to scrabble over the remains, which is underfunded by Surrey because they don't think it's worth it.

Have just joined mumsnet so coming to this topic very late. Just wanted to say that you are very out of date with your comments about Shene School - it is now very much on the up and the new head is doing great things. My daughter is there and thriving, loves school and has made many lovely new friends.
I think the point here is don't listen to gossip - go and find out for yourself by visiting a school. Most secondary schools will show you around - unless they have something to hide.

I live in Ham (near Greycourt) and it's interesting how different the situation is here from Sheen - my kids go to good local primary and they and almost all their friends will go to Greycourt. It's definitely seen as a very positive choice by parents round here and we were very impressed with it when we visited - interesting lessons, very orderly (we saw the changeover between lessons), lots of sports on offer now and a real sense of pride in the school from all the teachers and students. I do think it has something to do with the fact that we're in a slightly less affluent area than Sheen, Richmond etc, so the vast majority of people go to the local secondary school, which in turn brings up the standard of the school (although I know it went through a v bad patch a few years ago) whereas in Sheen, the local secondary seems to be one of those "over my dead body" places.

Willow, Christs got very good results last year and the Head is very impressive. We did the tour and really liked it. Its very small, more the size of a large primary really and definitely worth considering IMHO. DD is at Grey Court and really doing well, the new Head their has done wonders their and takes no prisoners. Bad behaviour is simply not tolerated etc

Thought Teddington School was good?

Its not so much being afraid of FE colleges but if some of those excellent teacher were at the secondaries teaching GCSE as well as Alevel it might help improve teaching age 14-16 and be a bit more inspirational

Interesting about the lack of sixth-forms. I went to Kingston FE College for my A Levels; the teaching was (almost) uniformly excellent - lots of vv bright teenagers, good results. Don't be afraid of FE colleges.

You think you've got problems! The whole of Hampshire seems to be a sixth-form free zone. Also, all schools seem to be 7-form entry. Afraid we legged it into private sector for DS who really struggles with the scale of most schools. And even then we worried about an entry of 60 (which, to be honest, he has found difficult). He really thrived in a school of around 25 (that's total, not per year) and it really made me think about the whole human-scale thing!

All three DCs at the same school but beginning to revisit the 'all schools are rubbish' feeling that I've had for some time. Lack of respect, failing to treat children as individuals, completely failing to recognise the best, research-based strategies for teaching children. The fact that, even though we are spending a fortune on education, some teachers still feel it is appropriate to shout at children on a routine basis.

We got out of Richmond when the only house we liked (i.e. could afford) when we came to trade up didn't actually come into a single school's catchment area!

Grey Court is definitely very popular with Kingston parents- well some of them anyway. Seems lots of dcs from St Paul's, Coombe Hill see it as a viable option these days.

Mary - you have hit the nail on the head, I have long been convinced it is the lack of 6th form that has led to this. Agree with Willow. When I was in NCT 11 years ago (!) we had a talk from the local authority about primaries, and the admissions woman told me openly it was ironic everyone was fighting to get into the 'best' primary, but ALL the primaries were good & the secondaries were rubbish .
Having said that, I know someone who has lied about their address this year to get into Grey Court, so maybe confidence is building

Well it's all so cumulative isn't it? We are very happy with the RuT primary the DCs are at, but very concerned about where they will go next. A chat with the head left me with the view that in fact we would almost certainly end up in the private sector for secondary level; dinner party gossip holds this to be a universal truth; DH having been exclusively privately educated himself is not willing to take risks with the DCs future. So at home I have the form to sign this week accepting places at a private school for September 2010. We would stay in the state sector (is that strengthening it? seems a bit of an arrogant assumption) if we felt we could. Meanwhile my mates at the DCs school all talk about leaving London if private education is not a financial option for them. But if we all went en masse to the local state secondaries, they would have the benefit of middle class parents who are presumed to help raise standards.

The individual good is not the collective one in this case.

I think one problem with Richmond secondaries is their lack of 6th form. Which means they cant attract the type of teachers who enjoy teaching bright 16 +'s.
At one time Richmond used to say its results for secondary were poor compared to primary because all the bright pupils went private.Dont really think that is the case.
It will be interesting to see how the new academies pan out at Hampton and Whitton. Shame they will have only been running for 6 weeks when we have to make our choices next year,