Should Private School Pupils be eligible for Grammar Schools?

Mollie - not fair at all!!! am completely at this - what is their logic????

MollieO yes I agree thats exactly where it gets unfair isnt it ?

they're not their [pedant]

I don't have a problem with that if the LEA will give me the £5000 per annum they would be spending on my ds if he went to state school. While their at it they could also give me access to the LEA Ed Psych rather than telling me I have to pay because ds is at private school.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone who contributes a lot more than average tax to the economy choosing to use a state school over a private school, even though they could comfortably afford the latter. On the contrary.

Of course they should be eligible. I personally am not a fan of selective education but I certainly don't think children who happen to have spent the early part of their education in a private school should be prevented from having the state education they are entitled to.

In areas where there is a grammar school system that state education involves taking a test and competing for a place, the idea being that the smartest children will get in and the rest go to whatever secondary modern (or whatever they are called now) there is in the area. It doesn't make any sense that children who are moving from private to state education should be prevented from attending a state school just because they've previously paid for their education.

State education is for everyone, not just people who can't afford private education.

Abolish grammars and private schools, Problem solved.

"MintyCane, that chat thread was totally tongue in cheek. Its just that it does seem acceptable to refer to posh snobs at private schools, but heaven forbid anyone should use slightly contentious words to describe a particular element that you get in some state schools."

I know it was tongue in cheek. So are many of the things that the other side say.

"particular element" - what do you mean, I wonder ?

I am off to sprinkle some diamond dust on my cornflakes.

sorry litchick think i got out of the wrong side of bed this morning

we are paying for a host of reasons as well. but feeling that we need to release a state place for somene more deserving just isn't one of them.

think we're basically singing from the same song sheet though....

deaddei - really
Good luck!!!!!!!

gladders - we pay for a host of reasons, not least because it's a fantastic school and because we can.

However, I do realise how ridiculously lucky my DCs are and would, I think, feel guilty if I took a good state place.
But I accept that's just me being daft.
And of course, the idea that in DCs place would be bright but poor children, is equally daft.= given the state of the education game in this country.

litchick - you pay because you would feel guilty taking a state place

we pay because that was what we decided to do for our kids primary education.

i fully intend to go for the grammar school option at 11 (if they still exist by then) - i will have no qualms about this as it will still be in pursuit of getting the best education for my children.

if primary schools in grammar areas are not preparing kids for the 11+ then i agree that is unfari - but it is a legacy of our very confused education system.

playing the system is part of life. no way to prevent it happening.

Since when was a state grammar school only for children whose parents can't afford to pay?

Actually, I think I might feel guilty if I took up a good state place, that a child with no other options might otherwise have.

But sadly, the reality of grammar schools is that the middle classes are already dominating the rolls. Ditto, other excellent state schools.
You'll find a very common refrain on MN which is...we could afford private ( actually, we're so rich we sprinkle diamond dust on our frosties) but we choose to use state.
Then said person will describe the schools facitities as rivalling Harvard.

And they just don't see the double standard.

Well it'll be fun at the Sutton Grammar Test on Saturday....approx 2000 boys and parents fighting over 140 places.

What proportion of grammar school pupils do go to private primary schools first though? Plenty of children from my dcs private schools sit the tests for the Sutton or Bromley grammars but very few actually seem to go. Seems to be the case that if you're good enough to pass then you've probably also got a scholarship to an independent school with better facilities.

MintyCane, that chat thread was totally tongue in cheek. Its just that it does seem acceptable to refer to posh snobs at private schools, but heaven forbid anyone should use slightly contentious words to describe a particular element that you get in some state schools.

"playing the system" a.k.a. "negotiating your own way through life" . There is nothing wrong (everything right) about doing so.

Some state primaries do prepare for the 11+. My neice and nephew went to a primary school in Kent where 80%+ went on to Grammar schools. Not sure about most of the pupils but they def didn't have any tutoring either.

It's called ' playing the system'.

It exists in several forms - buying an overpriced house in a desirable catchment area, finding God at about the time you need a church school place or taking the calculated risk that an independent school will get your child into a (free) grammar school. Many independent primary level schools rather specialise in this - and why wouldn't they? If you run a business you give the customer what he pays for.

I think where the OP is coming from is the ( undisputed) fact that the overwhelming number of grammar school places are now going to children from higher income families who can afford the extra coaching - in whatever form - to lick the test.So it seems a bit unfair if a bright child's parents aren't clued up. In the days of many grammar schools, this wasn't necessary as all primary schools prepared children and the social background didn't come into it - and more schools meant more places.

I think this was what David Willetts was getting at when he suggested that grammar schools were now the preserve of the middle classes.
He lost his job, though.

"I preferred the chat thread which suggested a topic are for private school parents only."

Then you are just as bad

As Duritzfan said live and let live.

This is getting tiresome.

The "thugs" and "thickos" thing was a quote but I am not going to name names. Not all state schools are bad just becasue a particular child had a bad experience in one.

LOL lazymumofteenagesons .. I need your username actually - fits me to a t !

However I am using my own laptop paid for with my own money - so there !

This type of thread seems to be like the breastfeeding and the benefit system threads.. they just keep coming back .. terminator thread !!

I think the phrase is "live and let live" isnt it ?

And should people who use the occasional private doctor/consultant no longer be allowed to use the NHS...........

These threads are begining to get tedious. I preferred the chat thread which suggested a topic are for private school parents only. After all should we even be allowed to share the same conversations, we might be using a laptop paid for by huge bonus from husbands investment bank.

We could just abolish the remaining grammars, then we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

Sorry if that sounds too harsh .. am IMHO understandably a little defensive on this issue