Alevel maths - can DS really not be up to it?

By chance I came across these two O level maths from the fifties. THe second is the harder. How do they compare with GCSE? (I don't have a clue because my children are younger.)

www.burtongrammar.co.uk/?cat=114

Bah, didn't see CMOT's post about sound engineers - this is why it's so important you talk to the ones who know summat about Uni courses!

My experiences tally with FaintlyMacabre - there is a definite light bulb moment with the stuff early on in the A level maths syllabus. I did maths (with mechanics) and physics and I think if I'd dropped maths I would have had to drop physics too tbh.

I would say if he can get some extra support to get him through the first few months then make a decision. I think now is too early to decide.

I teach AS maths, and there are a few students I have met who did very well at GCSE but struggle at AS level. If I had a student who was pbviously struggling after 2 weeks I would talk to them. I strongly believe that it is unfair to allow a student to continue with a subject if they are not going to do well in it wihtout letting them consider the options themselves.

I would never tell a student to drop a subject althuogh I might strongly suggest they consider swapping to another subject. A student who has A and A* grades at GCSE shuodl be doing 4 AS levels.

I would suggest you ask the teacher for some specific information on what he is struggling with in maths, and what extra support is available. Some 1 to 1 with a maths teacher would not be unreasonable to ask for IMO.

I assume he is doing a modular course? If so his first exams are after the XMas holiday and he will receive the results a couple of months later and you can see how he does.

ANd now for devil's advocate If he is struggling wiht it, and he is doing physics and wants to persue a career that relies on maths - maybe now is the time to rethink before he goes too far down the route and it's harder to change. Also, of course I have no idea what he is thinking of in the future, but the combination of AS levels he has is unusual and I'd want to be certain that they will allow him to do the course he plans at Uni. Perhaps ask him to set up an appointment with a teacher at school who can advise him on Uni courses, his form tutor/HoY would know who to recommend.

Good luck to him (and you!). Starting AS year is stressful and trying to make this kind of decision is more stress on top.

yes I think it sounds too early too

I loved A level maths (interesting that it's still quite modular almost 20 years after I took it!). It may be that they've started with one module he doesn't quite get yet but they have loads of other ones like mechanics and geometry etc. etc.

What has your son said about it? Is he finding it hard? Perhaps he's not been applying himself?

I would keep an open mind and see what the maths teachers say but also have a word with ds and find out if it might be an effort problem (rather than an understanding one). I can imagine that the leap from GCSE to A level is quite large and perhaps he's feeling a bit demotivated because of that.

Personally, I'd drop the language, and use that time to put more time into the maths. The revision guides are good for working through and through the problems. If he needs another AS, he could always have a gap year and do the AS in that year

FWIW I got an A at GCSE and struggled with A level maths - I'd really reached the extent of my interest. In my physics degree, I never found the maths any easier, but could at least apply it.

Is your son planning on doing Physics and Music ? Several of my friends at uni did that, and at least one is now a sound engineer

I just wanted to share my experiences of GCSE and A-level maths (16 years ago!).
I was good at maths and put into the top set, who all took the GCSE a year early. We then did AO level Maths in the GCSE year.
I got a A for GCSE with no problems (and not wishing to boast but the only reason I didn't get an A* was that they hadn't been introduced!). Then we moved onto the AO curriculum. This was A-level stuff, calculus etc. I was completely lost, didn't get it at all and was getting Ds for everything. It was a real shock.
Suddenly though, just before our mock exam, it just clicked. It was like a switch had been turned on in my head. I went on to get an A for AO and then for A-level as well. I didn't do Maths at university but now I wish I had!

What I am trying to say is that 5 weeks is a very short time into the curriculum, especially one with such a big jump in difficulty from GCSE to A-level. I'm sure that my AO teacher would have predicted me for failure at this point. I would stick with it- if he is 'in tune' with the physics then he should be able to do the Maths, even if it takes a little time to 'click'.

Oh, and I did a physics degree and I started really struggling with the maths at that level (despite having maths and further maths A-levels) - our tutor was useless and unlearned everything I had learned at A-level, he was so flipping confusing.

Again, I started to ignore the teacher and in the end borrowed engineering maths text books from my then boyfriend (dh now ) and just went over and over and over each example. Engineering maths text books seem to be written far more clearly for some reason!

I don't know how much the maths syllabus has changed since I took it, but I remember a large part of it (once you had got the hang of each process) being a case of just change the numbers once you got into the exam. The trick is for the process to fall into place in your head, and if your teacher isn't good at explaining the process then you're really out of luck.

One thing I did was buy a Lett's Revision Guide before my course even started and taught myself a large chunk. The repetition of going over and over the same thing in every example helped it click for me, then all the teacher could do was change the numbers.

Five weeks isn't that long. Could he at least give it until the end of the term and put some work in himself? Could the maths department be persuaded to give him some pointers on which areas of the basics he should work on the most?

I know that many teachers have anxieties about GCSE not being stretching enough for those who want to go on to A level.

At my son's school they do the IGCSE. I don't know much about it but it's supposed to be more challenging, so perhaps it's easier to work out who's really got that extra mathematical something.

OP--your son wouldn't be the first by a long way to have had this experience. Good luck sorting it out.

That's why I moved my kids back to the usa when they were ready to start school. When we were in the uk they were trying to tell me that there was something wrong with my ds because he wasn't learning how to read quickly enough at nursery (!!!). He is now in 4th Grade, is permanently attached to a book and has been identified as a genius. Never mind my dh who has gone back to uni at the ripe old age of 38 to study Geology (he never did much schooling past the age of 12, the first time around).
The idea that at 16 a child is condemned to a path in life because he doesn't thrive in the first 5 weeks of a level math is disgusting.

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Its strange that they are advising giving up maths when he is doing physics. At DS(1) school you are not allowed to do physics A level without maths.

Also seems very early on.Do you know what sort of marks he has been getting for homeworks/tests? When DS(1) doesn't understand something in maths he asks the teacher after class and often a one to one session is arranged in a free or lunch time.

There is a very wide range of marks for an A in maths GCSE. I have heard rumours that you can get an A with about 55%. Not saying this is what your son got, but would really struggle at A level with that.

Having said that, also he may need a serious think about what he wants to do and does it really suit his brain/character/aptitudes? There are an awful lot of careers and degree courses that aren't obvious to a 17 year old - I'm sure people could suggest related alternatives.

Could he drop one of the other subjects? I did 4 A levels (in the olden days) but two of them were maths and further maths.

I would pursue it if possible. There is a good reason that technical degree courses demand maths, it really is the foundation of those subjects. There were people on my engineering MSc course who didn't have a Maths A level and they were floundering on the theoretical stuff. Whereas language and music are "nice to have" but you could learn those without doing an A level (unless they are degree related too - music technology?

good point imkeepingmum if he can't manage the maths he'll be in for a terrible time in physics. there's some harder maths in physics than in maths!!!

Not a teacher but I did A level maths (after getting an A in GCSEs) 8 years ago - I was the last year of the old A levels without AS. I also did Physics and would say that he will be much better off continuing with the maths if he is also doing physics. Without exception, every person on my physics course who was not doing maths as well dropped out in the first year. I ended up with an A in maths and am now doing a degree in it part-time. I would say the bigger struggle is trying to do 4 subjects at once - I started French A level and gave it up during the first term as it was a lot of work doing 4 subjects.

IMO if he needs maths for the degree he wants to do the school should let him do what HE wants not what they want (which is probably to do with their league tables...)!

Well I am afraid this is how it is these days. Getting an A or A* in Maths(or prob any GCSE) does not mean being exceptionally bright in that subject. My DD got an A in Maths and DS1 an A in Physics. There is no way they could have really taken A levels in those subjects.

I do feel sorry for the OP's son though. You need to talk it through with the school. What does he want to do at university?

Well I can understand why they don't do logs for GCSE anymore. We had to learn how to use them from about 11 or 12 but that was because calculators weren't allowed at O level.

Vulpus: We did do caclulus for O level but when I got to 6th Form College I found that ours was the only school that had. Most of the other examining boards didn't go near it until A level - and that was 30 years ago (eek)

Blimey. I'm amazed. How do they cope in science A levels if they can't do these things when they start?

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that they only do calculus at A level these days: really?!