Not happy my 13 year 's class old had recruitment presentation from armed forces today

They do recruit adults too cory. They do at least treat young people like adults, unlike a lot of people these days. You get posts on mumsnet where people wouldn't let a 16 yr old babysit, even with a direct line to a mobile, because they couldn't cope!

Not only does the army differ from other employers in the respects mentioned above by seeker; it is also unlike other jobs in that ou can't just give a months notice to quit, or walk out. In any other job, I can quit if I decide my employer is up to something I don't agree with: a soldier has got to carry on fighting for even what he perceives to be an unjust war, until his term is up. Big difference.

With this in mind, I have a big problem with the fact that the British army is just about the only western army that recruits children under 18. I know they do not see active service while under age, but they are still making a massive commitment at a very young age. Britain has frequently been criticised for this. I would have much more respect for the recruitment office if they recruited adults.

A well balanced post jcscot.
I recently went to my Uncle's funeral (he was elderly and had long been retired). He joined the navy at 17yrs when job opportunities were thin on the ground. He joined at the bottom as a stoker and quickly rose through the ranks to Lieutenant Commander. He travelled the world and would never have gained the same skills,confidence and experiences in his small town. His mother didn't want him to join-he did it and told her afterwards.
I agree with jcscot-people are talking as if the Forces giving a career talk is a brainwashing exercise and that young people don't have brains of their own! There are too many parents who want to control not only what their DCs do, but what they think.

Funny jscot my DH's story is similar. He wanted to join as a soldier, but they persuaded him to do A Levels, and he actually went to an Army 6th Form.

The army then sponsored him through Bristol Uni and he then went to Sandhurst and became an officer.

He left after a few years, but loved his job and would highly recommend it as a career. In fact, I often think he regrets leaving and I would support him going back in in a heartbeat, even though when he was out in Iraq it was the most stressful and scary period of my life.

I agree that the Armed Forces should be allowed into schools (and colleges/universities) to inform people about the job opportunities but also to inform people of what role the Forces play in our society.

I know it must be hard to imagine your child in such a job but it can be an excellent and fulfilling career.

My husband came from just such a deprived area as seeker talks about. He turfed up at a recruitment office at the age of 15, fully intending to join up as a soldier and was persuaded to go to college, get his A-levels and then onto Uni. He did just that and is educated to postgradute degeree level.

Then, and only then, did he join the Army. He's an officer and he loves his job. He's been promoted rapidly and has fully enjoyed all the challenges and opportunities that have come his way. Right now, he's out in Afghanistan and - difficulties of the job aside - he's enjoyed it.

Based on his experience, I would encourage both my sons to go into the Forces - they could do far worse in life than join an orginaisation where the individual is taught and encouraged to put others before themselves, where good old-fashioned values like honour and duty and service still have currency and where there is a strong sense of community and support.

I wouldn't be to concerned about the presentation - if the Forces interest your child, they will explore and abandon or pursue that career as they choose. There's no brainwashing or cult-like conditioning and your shild might just learn something about how the Forces fit into our society.

Seeker, I can see your point, and I accept it, but I do disagree with it.

There are many parts of the army that aren't fundamentally about killing, such as intelligence, logistics etc. I know they are kind of a means to an end, but it's not as if forces personnel are out there every day shooting people.

But also, I do agree with piscesmoon, it's never going to be up to a parent to make a career decision for their child. It's obviously fine to talk to them about the downsides as well as the up, but it will be their decision.

I guess if you fundamentally disagree with maintaining an army, then I can accept your point more (and I don't know if this is your position), but I'm just pointing out that there are lots of opportunities for people in the forces, and it is a legitimate and respected career for thousands of people, the vast majority of whom will never have to kill another person, and will not be injured or killed themselves.

sorry-opportunities.
I have to say that neither DS would have been going into a role where they were going to directly kill anyone-neither was the young man I spoke to in the shopping centre.

My eldest son tried to get into the RAF after university. He wasn't going for a pilot's job but it is very, very difficult to get into. He failed, but was invited to apply again later. Other opportunties turned up in the meantime and he didn't pursue it. Middle son started the application process,at a lower level, and got a date for apptitude tests but he got an apprenticeship before they came up and cancelled. There was a lot to be said for it as a career with good opportunities for advancement. As a mother, I am relieved that they didn't,but DS1 would have had skills that he could have transferred to civilian life and DS2 would have the same skills that he has with his apprenticeship. The modern forces are highly skilled-they are not looking for 'cannon fodder'.
I have discussed it with young people who have chosen it as a career and they have all struck me as being remarkably mature, and to have thought it out. The one that I call to mind was an 18 yr old girl who was going to join the army. I think you can discuss it with them, in a rational way, but if it is what they want to do it is very unfair to foist your own views.
Maybe it is just because I have lived in military areas and met lovely forces people, but I would support them if they made that choice. Having met a young man, recently back from Afganistan (disturbed enough to speak to me as a stranger in a shopping centre cafe about his experiences)I have to say that I am pleased that they haven't gone down that route.
I don't usually disagree Seeker! However I think that if you bring up young people to make their own choices you have to follow it to the logical conclusion and give them the freedom to do it. You can give your reasons but it isn't fair to play the emotional blackmail card, or to resent a careers talk at school.

But not many jobs have downsides which are actually the fundamental purpose of the job - the army is about killing people. All the other stuff is what you do when you are not at that moment being required to kill people.

To be fair, I'm not sure any presentation would necessarily go into all the downsides of the respective jobs - as I imagine they're trying to attract people into the job rather than putting them off.

I would be very surprised if they go into the downsides in much detail - the risk of death or being appallingly injured, the risk of serious mental health issues after a service career and the fact that ex-servicemen are disproportionately represented among the homeless. Not to mention the risk of being caught up in action which results in the death of innocent civilians.

The recruitment talks will be about the excitement, the pay, the training, the travel - no wonder kids from disadvantaged backgrounds are attracted to the idea.

We had recruiters from the Forces at both the private schools I attended, so they do go for the privileged too. My good friend and I complained about discrimination (women not being allowed in the front line) and were amazed that the female recruiter didn't think it was an issue at all. At sixth form (public school with girls in the sixth form only) the SBS came for the presentation and I seem to recall we were even more annoyed because I don't think they recruited women at all.

My BIL as in the RAF and came out with some very sellable skills, which given that he also was very poorly qualified going in have made an enormous difference to his life.

I consider a career in the forces to be one of the most respected jobs that anyone can do. It is terrible when our young lads get killed, but firstly, there is more to the army than war (that could be their new tagline).

They can get excellent training in the trades, learn incredible teamwork skills, make friends for life etc.

Secondly, it is quite exciting - especially for men (some of them), who like doing things like camping, shooting, running, parachuting etc etc.

And certainly in deprived areas, the ability to have a relatively well paid, secure job, with housing and a decent pension is not something to be sniffed at.

Oh, piscemoon - my world is shifting on its axis! I don't agree with you!

It is another thing that DCs should be free to make up their own minds about and not have the parent forcing their own view.

I agree with Drusilla, my dh is in the RAF as an administrator and on the upside of the obviously terrible things going on in afganistan the services can open so many opportunities that you don't get in civilian life and gives you the chance to make something of yourself. My dh wishes he'd joined younger. I very much doubt there was actual 'recruitment' going on for 13 year olds and I do think that when they are old enough to decide for themselves the services is something they should be allowed to consider. You see, otherwise, this country wouldnt have any armed forces and then we'd all be in the shit!

These talks may also make people realize that there is far more to a career in one of the services than being shot at in Afghanistan. Many people leave the forces highly qualified and employable in civilian life, often from backgrounds where this may have been harder to achieve off their own back. My DH is one of them.

The young guys I know who have served/serve in my dh's regiment are the salt of the earth. A lot of them come from deprived backgrounds and have really made something for themselves.

Some of their siblings are on the streets/in prison.

"to be absolutely fair seeker, they are doing the school leavers in areas of high unemployment a favour."

I agree. My brother would have loved to be in the Army if it wasn't for his hearing difficulties.

The people in deprived areas can also have the sheer balls to get on with army life - and war.

to be absolutely fair seeker, they are doing the school leavers in areas of high unemployment a favour.

The army will let you in based on an aptitude test - you don't need to pass your GCSE's.

Yes, you could get blown up - but I would actually rather risk that than sit on the dole until I retire because there's fuck all else to do because I didn;'tpass my GCSE's and parents won't support me through college.

I know a few 'boys' who joined the forces straight after leaving school, and they are all hugely, HUGELY improved by it.

Of course men (rather than women) are more likely to be killed in the Armed Forces as there are more of them serving.

Anyway 13 is a reasonable age for children to start considering their future.

i'd agree to a talk about recruitment into forces.....

if followed by the 'Wounded' programme being shown on BBC1 tonight.

It is incredibly difficult to get into the services-you make it sound as if it is a religious cult that takes anyone! It is just a talk. Many schools have cadet forces-should those be banned?

What upsets me is that the Armed Forces target their recruitment talks - they go for schools in areas of high unemployment and deprivation. So incredibly cynical.