Science BTEC compared to GCSEs - I don't believe it can be worth 4 GCSEs

Sashh - the ds in the OP will now be in the 6th form, or will have left school - it's from Sept 09
It seems this thread was revived in 2011, and now again this week.

Enough said Lilsop.

Hi, im a b-tec student in year 11 and I'm nearly finished my b-tec course. If I finish with a distinction thats equivalent to a A* ( so thats equivalent as 2 GCSEs). On the other hand b-tec is for those who can't do exams not for those who are dumb, just to make things clear. No one has the right to say that B-tec is for dumb people.

If he was told to pull his socks up then he is not a straight A student, he has been put in a group you are not happy with.

You really have been given a choice her - 2 GCSEs in a group you don't like or BTEC (probably level 2) which is equivelant to 4 GCSEs.

If he wants to do sciences at A Level then he not only needs GCSES but be passing with a minimum of a B, and in 'propper' science not applied science GCSE.

Even with a B grade GCSE he would still struggle at A Level.

This is for SScience, I am a big advocate of BTEC (you can go through levels from level 1 to HND), but not for science.

If he absoloutly will not be doing A Level science then put him in the group he will be happier in.

Thanks eviltwins for your reassuring imput.I am looking forward to going to the college with the evidence, i just wished the college was as knowledgeable as yourself. Thanks too for the advice on gaining experience.

As a Head of VI Form, I can tell you that the college is talking bull.

I have had students this year and last (wasn't Head of VI before then) get to uni to take nursing and other related degrees with BTECs at both KS2 and KS3. If you go to the UCAS site and do Course Search (on the left) you can see exactly what universities do and don't accept - choose your subject, and it will give you a list of all related courses at all universities - you can then select Course Requirements, and it will give you the specific info. SOME might not accept BTEC, but certainly not MOST.

IME, the most important thing for any student applying for nursing (or related) at university is experience. One of my Yr 13s has had two of her applications for paramedic science courses rejected because her application did not clearly demonstrate a good understanding of the profession compared to other candidates. In contrast, one student who successfully applied for nursing last year had been working in an old people's home for a year or so, and had done work experience in a hospital. She was taking BTEC Health and Social (double) and BTEC Performing Arts at VI Form, incidentally.

If your DD can get some experience - even if it's voluntary, in the field that she wants to study, then that will help. If I were you, I'd check the UCAS details for the courses she wants to take, then take that evidence to the college to prove that she doesn't need to take GCSE Science.

To my annoyance The confusion between btec science worth 4 gcses isnt going away.
My daughter is a bright child, she has gained a grade c gcse in maths after taking exam early. She was entered into btec science , worth 4 gcse`s as we were told by school . She is now coming to the end of the course and is now looking at colleges/uni to further her career in a nursing field.She has been predicted the 4 grade c or above to get on her course. The college has informed me that as well as enrolling on her full time health and social course she will have to enrol in a science subject to gain a gcse ( c or above) because most universities dont accept btec science !
So annoyed ! what a waste of her time and effort.
Is this a case of the school trying to increase their pass rates at our childrens expense?
Heads are gonna roll !

Neither the Btec nor the applied science route equip students for traditional A level science courses. They are therefore a bad choice for any student who is not absolutly certain that they do not want to go down that road.
Not sure about the performing arts BTEC but in science it is substandard to G.C.S.e, parents may not want to accept this, but it is.
It is a travesty to be honest, as pupils who haven't a hope of getting a c at G.S.C.E science very frequently get the equivalent of a c in BTEC. This is why some schools enter so many pupils for it.
It'S NOT equivalent, teachers know it, Universities know it and the govenerment know it. It might not be what people want to hear, but it is reality.
OP your son should not be doing BTEC uf he is a grade A student. You need to challenge this.

i did GCSE science both core and additional and when i went into year 10 i was in set 1. i got into the wrong crowd and started messing about, not taking great care of my education and as a result, i got an E on my core and they moved me down to set 3 and thats when i took conscience and started working a little bit but not to my up most potential and found additional easy but i couldn't move back up to set 2 or 1 in order to get a B or A because it was near exams in year 11 so i sat the foundation paper and got a C. i got refuse for AS level biology and chemistry and my mum and i went to college asking for GCSE science so i can resit they said 'yeah, 'yeah this is the right course'. they didn tell us it was btec and i didn know nothing about because it was my first time doing btecs and now im getting distinctions but i cant do a levels biology n chemistry because not many colleges accept it, but they're still adamant that colleges will accept it and i really dont know what to do

Not a through enough preparation for A Level and is not highly regarded by unis. In my school is general only given to low ability/bad behaviour just to meet the requirement for Science in KS4.

My son would probably only have been graded a C in year 9,hated science,artsy type not very mature ,typical boy etc.He got an A* and an A in science and Additional science and declared them proabbly two of the easiest subjects in his crop of 10 GCSEs.How ridiculous to make life changing decisions based on year 9 performance .

And clearly if it is not good enough for A levels and universities won't accept it ,then it is not that worthwhile a qualification .The point is what is it useful for ?

On the subject of SEN ,in my experience expectations are often too low.Our local school said that based on his statement they would not expect ds2 to do GCSEs,at his specialist school he is taking 6,admittedly at foundation level and heavily tailored to his needs but nevertheless he is a lot more capable than they would give him credit for

Your child will have been moved to BTEC because he seems unlikely to achieve success at GCSE. If you think he is likely to want to go on to do A-level sciences, you need to worry. If not, he may well be better off doing BTEC - it's a perfectly valid and useful qualifcation and of much more practical use than GCSE. I'm an ex Head of Science

BTEC Science won't count for the EBacc so hopefully all these schools which are shoe-horning kids onto the BTEC will reconsider if they're actually capable of a C at GCSE.

btec science does not count as even one GCSE in Gove's brave new world.
Nuff said.

firebird777 Your post has me rather puzzled. What grade is your dd achieving in art? I assume that it must below b. If she wants to be an illustrator she needs to be really at the top of the class not just at GCSE but through AS/A2 to get a place at Art School or uni.

The reason being that it is an amazingly competitive field and many that emerge with degrees in the field do not have the necessary talent to make it.

If the school has doubts about GCSE, maybe it is a bit of a wake up call. On the positive side Art is a subject that can be studied at AS/A2 without a GCSE, if you can demonstrate talent. So there is nothing to stop her carying on with her art, gathering a portfolio and having that wonderful I told you so moment!

my dd wants to be an illustrator - she intends to do art at gcse, as and university level
she is also statemented SEN as she has aspergers
she is in year 9 and got her options today
she has been given 5 core subjects including phse and pe
one language i assume to gcse level
the rest of her options are btecs
she has not been given the option of doing art (or humanities)
the school - recently become an academy requires a b grade at gcse level to do as art
so basically she cant follow the career path she has stated
we recently had a meeting which covered her current grades and i asked then if they were good enough for her to have the full range of options at gcse and i was told she did
at this school the senco is in charge of the students learning plan
i really need to know what recourse i have to force the school to let her take art and a minimum of 5 actual gcse's which she will need if she followsthe career path she has requested
any ideas? im going to the senco with this but i suspect she is a cul de sac in the power chain and i am at a loss who to turn to this time

Oh you have all my sympathies .
Would they respond better/faster to an email ?
Are you going to "flag this issue up " ,ie failure to offer appropriate curriculum /qualification to Parent Governor ?
Good luck .Your son's lucky to have you fighting his corner .
Though heaven knows this particular issue shouldn't need fighting !

violetqueen Thanks for getting back to me. If only the school would phone back for an appointment for me as quickly.....

Chillstress ,that's terrible.
Can quite believe it - some schools ,especially those "turning around " a struggling school seem to concentrate 120% of their effort on lower achieving students.
This seems to involve offering Btechs because they improve their position in the league tables .
In my experience ,any real communication, let alone dialogue ,with parents goes straight out the window.
Don't know if much help but in my research into university courses it does seem that for science degrees some offer a foundation year for those that lack science qualifications.

Slinky, it looks like your child had a lucky escape. My older boys did GCSEs in science and got Cs with little or no effort. So good luck to your daughter teaching.

Loshad, Thanks for reply. Unis won't take BTec for Medicine. Some do a foundation year for good As in different subjects. It is as someone said more the principle of the thing. League tables are more important to them.

I only discovered the issue last week. My son's school gaily informed me at parents evening that, no he could not consider A levels in science because he is on the btech. I was never consulted or offered GCSEs for him: I thought they must have dropped them in favour of BTEC and it was better! Shocked and furious. Our school starts GCSEs in year 9. He is now started year 10 and obviously not likely to be allowed to change courses even if he had the nerve to do so, which he doesn't. I want them to open the possibility to A levels if he gets his (predicted) Distinction. They even did SATs in year 8 and he scored a 5. I know it is not great but it was in the top half of the results. The VA for the year 7 and 8 was non existent. I think he could have done GCSEs and was not offered. Someone made a casual decision regarding his future. And for many other kids too.

in ours (another fairly low achieving state comp!) they don't have to be the triple scientists - we'll take the doubles provided they get 2 B's, but we would not take btec'ers onto AS courses, they'd have to do the level 3 btec if they were staying on in the 6th form. chillstress your son will find it a huge junp from btec to as, if he really wants to do medicine he needs to ask the unis now if they would consider him with his current crop of qualifications before he decides what to do next.

If your DD was consistently scoring a C, then in my school she would do GCSE. We offer BTEC to students who are targeted a D or below. This is however not the group that EdExcel say the course is aimed at. A C grade target would be just right according to them.

Chillistress - my school is fairly low achieving int he great scheme of things, but even we (!) ask for at least a grade B in order to do an AS in any subject. The students who do BTEC Applied Acience in our school would not be candidates for AS Science. If they were, they would be doing triple Science GCSEs.

I'm going through the same thing with DD1 (currently in Year 9). She has already picked her options at the end of Year 8.

Received letter home stating that after recent assessments (she got a C), they were moving her from GCSE Science to the BTEC First in Applied. I have sent an email to the Head of Science expressing my concern.

DD1 is in the 2nd set for Science (out of 4) so was very surprised to discover that she may not sit GCSE (is sitting GCSES for everything else). Unbeknown to me, only 2 in her class have been picked to do GCSE, everyone else BTEC. Also unbeknown to me, every set of parents of the BTEC children have complained.

Consequently, there has been a meeting and DD1 is staying where she is. As I said, she got a C in recent assessments so in my mind she should stay with GCSE - would be a different story if she had got an F etc.

My main concern was that she wants to go into Primary teaching and she will need GCSE Science A* - C.