Grrrrr sorry this is a silent vent about ds who is 'undecided' re university - bit late!

I think it's also important to remember that Oxbridge really isn't the be all and end all. It's easy for me to say that because I had the privilege of going, but 12 years on, while I remember my time very fondly and with great pride, it hasn't marked my life for ever more.

Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" on what makes people successful? It is very fascinating- see the chapter on Nobel prize winners and where they did their undergrad degrees.

Fayrazzled, in my experience of admissions, the really fantastic candidates stand out a mile, as do the weaker ones.

There is then a much larger pool of possibles. There IS an element of lottery, especially for universities who don't interview. But you can make your way from possible to probable with a strong personal statement.

As someone said higher up the thread, there is advice and information out there, even for kids whose schools aren't so Oxbridge-attuned. The colleges and admissions offices should be happy to advise on what to put in a personal statement - in fact, they will give much better advice than most schools!

It is a lottery, anyone who's applied or knows anyone who's applied knows that. But you have to buy a ticket and fill the ticket in first to win the lottery. You need to apply and tick all the boxes on the application to get in. And then you might not win, you might not get in, but you've given yourself the best chance possible and there's nothing to be ashamed of in that.

But this is getting very OT!

I suspect the % getting A*s will still be pretty high, particularly amongst Oxbridge candidates.

As Frakkin says, the key is to show your interest and originality - both in your personal statement and at interview.

Pooled candidates stand a better chance because effectively they've already been given the nod by another don as "suitable for the university but not quite right for this college". They're a hurdle further on than the open application candidates.

I can only tell you what my Director of Studies view was- that if you could get 3,4,5 As at A-level, then you had the academic ability to get a 2.1 at cambridge.

I totally agree that doing your research and trying to stand out from the crowd is a Good Thing. However, for schools that don't have a history of sending kids to Oxbridge, it can be very difficult for a student to understand what this means in practice.

I still think the admissions system at Oxbridge is pretty much a lottery and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Otherwise, why would so many able candidates be turned down each year? Many of those candidates could shine given a chance but there just aren't the places.

I'm with madeupsurname on the job front. It also comes across favourably whilst trying to get jobs whilst at uni (sad but true that student finance won't cover everything you need) and afterwards.

I thought that Oxbridge were going to ignore A this year (ie A predictions will be ignored), or do you mean for an application after his A levels?

x-posts with lots of people there

If he does end up having a gap year, as a university tutor I'd definitely encourage him to spend all or most of it working. I see a huge difference between students who've spent the year mostly on the conventional gap year trail and the people who've worked hard in a 'normal' job. The latter tend to have learnt good work habits and independence, and appreciate their course a lot more.

Also when candidates come from pool colleges know they're not the first choice and the candidates are pooled because they're GOOD candidates, but not for that particular college.

Whether you end up liking the college is a bit hit and miss but it's a basic thing to try and get right when you apply. Sure pooling works for candidates every year but you only get into pooling if you do well in your first interview.

Maybe he is just having a bit of a wobble? It sounds like he has always been very successful and self-motivated, maybe he's now thinking 'oh cripes, what if I don't get in?'

With regard to the colleges - the most important thing imo is that he is in a college with like-minded people. I only know about Oxford, but the colleges there draw from very different constituencies - some are very sporty, some are more public school than others, some are known as 'northern', others have a leftish reputation.

Obviously finding out which one is the right one can be a bit tricky. Can the school put him in touch with former pupils who are now at Cambridge?

The alternative prospectus is worth a look, and perhaps some more internet research would throw up more info.

At the open day I went to with DD at Oxford, they were adament that no-one making an open application would be disadvantaged. That if you really had no preference that is what you should do.

DD made a choice (at Cambridge) to apply for a larger college with good sports facilities, and was pooled to a smaller modern one!

Her friend was rejected without pooling (applied for Maths) and he has just achieved 5 A Grade A levels, plus a further AS level and 2 AEA's! So unfair, although he has gt a place at another top London Uni.

Clare is a nice college.

I was never very fond of Christ's- back in the day their students weren't allowed a TV in their room and the college bar closed during the summer term so as not to distract students from their revision. They were very pushy about the college being high in the intercollegiate league tables for exam results.

Don't know much about Churchill except to say it is a long way from the centre of town!

Pooled candidates stand a much better chance than those with a straight Open. Most colleges look in the pool for a gem that slipped through another college's application process. And I do believe it's still true that the 'weakest' candidates put in an open app.

Fayrazzled I'll agree it's a lottery but I disagree everyone who applies could do well. And 99.9% candidates who don't put in the effort don't stand a chance. Everyone who applies will have the academic ability, not everyone will have the interest in the subject that's needed or the extra something to catch the tutor's attention and make them memorable. Applicants who don't do their research let themselves down.

I know being pooled is different to making an open application, Lady Muck- my point was that I didn't get into the college I originally applied for and it worked out well for me.

It's definitely not the case that all interviewed candidates unsuccessful with their chosen college are pooled: colleges only pool those candidates they think are worthy of consideration by another college.

I may be wrong, but I think the open application system is more popular now (since the abolition of the original system where one chose 3 colleges to apply to), and isn't considered the preserve of supposedly weaker candidates.

It might be that he's not ready yet, or it could just be a holiday wobble. He may have felt an obligation to have an answer as to what he was going to do after school, but now he has got to this point he needs some more time.

I think that it might be worthwhile for you to thin about what your back-up plan might be if he still isn't ready by the end of Sept. Are you happy with a gap year - to what extent will you support him financially through this? He could apply for other unis later this year (or do all unis require an October application?)

Is there anyone from his school that he knows who went to Oxbridge last year - perhaps he could meet them for a drink and a chat?

But getting a place from the pool is different from making an open application isn't it? With an open application you get automatically allocated to a college (whichever one has fewest applicants per place for the course). All interviewed candidates who are unsuccessful with their chosen colleges are put in the pool.

In "my day", only the weakest candidates put in an open application. But I guess that may have changed.

My school did not have a history of sending people to Oxbridge- so don't worry too much about him being prepped in advance. I think the most important things are that your son is relaxed, confident (not cocky), and has well thought through answers to questions such as "why this course"; "why this college"; what are you interests; what do you consider your strengths. He'll also be expected to demonstrate a sound understanding of some of the subject matter relating to his proposed degree subject. So if he does choose medicine, he might be asked some detailed questions relating to his science A-levels.

TBH, there is a lot of bullshit talked about Oxbridge interviews. In reality, it is a lottery. My Director of Studies admitted she might aswell throw the applications up in the air and catch 10. Pretty much everyone who applies could do well at Oxbridge. Much more important is that your son is doing what will make him happy in the long run.

IME the college you choose has a HUGE impact on what your experience of Oxbridge is - do you think he realises that?

Tend to agree with Ponders that he is not ready - it would be a shame if he chose a course that was not quite right and lived to regret it.

Tell him from me - who has been involved with admissions at Oxbridge and Russell Group unis - that the main thing admissions tutors look for in the personal statement is real committment to the subject area. Schools often underestimate this and encourage them to bang on about their extra-curricular stuff, but what academics are really looking for is a genuine and documented enthusiasm for the subject. So he would have to be in a position to wax lyrical about NatSci/Medicine/PPE/whatever and show how he has been pursuing these interests outside the classroom. (Lab experience obviously v.g. start here.)

I do sympathise - sounds v. stressful for you.

I agree with ponders. It seems to me like he's just going for Oxbridge because they're top and he's attracted to the name and the challenge. But he doesn't REALLY want it or he'd have researched things more thoroughly, picked out a college, been working on making himself as attractive a candidate as possible for the college and the course and been preparing for interviews already but talking to current students/people who interviewed but didn't get in/teachers who went there/any tutors who are willing to talk.

There is absolutely no harm in taking the time out to decide what he wants to do (as long as he can justify what he's doing in that time).

Equally there is nothing wrong with not knowing what you want to do at 18. He can hedge his bets and apply for uni and drama school or he can take the pressure off himself and focus on school.

DD was asked why she choose Jesus college!

The only ones that def won't get asked are those that made an Open Application - which may be his best bet if he really has no preference.