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Original poster

Tell me about getting in to a selective STATE grammar school please.

108 replies

LupusinaLlamasuit · 07/07/2009 14:55

Yes, yes, yes. I know. It is wrong and shabby and my socialist principles will have to go in the bin and I will have to hand back my Trotsky hat and badge blah blah blah.

It is probably even MORE wrong than a private selective school.

But we are weighing up all the options, and the most likely is still the decent 'normal' state school just up the road.

But I just want to have a look at it (the out of county selective grammar) and see. So before I do, I need to know what I need to know IYSWIM. There will be examinations and 'inside information' and stuff won't there?

He is very bright but guess he will need practice papers, yes? Is it worth doing the exam just to see or is that too stressful allround and do we risk losing a place at the local school therein?

Thanks

OP posts:
Fennel · 10/07/2009 13:23

Isn't 55% pass rate grades A-C at GCSE around the national average?

Round here, in a quite sought after area, all 4 of the local schools have a pass rate of 40% or less, and there aren't grammars (well there are but over an hour away, a few children go). The private schools and a religious secondary cream off an inordinate number. 55% would be a good passs rate round here. 70% would be very good.

Simples · 10/07/2009 13:20

Lupus
have you my email? am nto sure who you are.
I can fill you in.

Fennel · 10/07/2009 13:19

Yes that's true Seeker and I don't think of schools with a nearby grammar as comps, whatever they might be called. But the OP seems to be talking as though most of the local children won't be considering the grammar, is that right? It does make a big difference, I agree.

mumblechum · 10/07/2009 13:10

Echoing the last 2 posters. If ds hadn't got in he would have gone to a highschool with only about 55% GCSE AtoCs (as opposed to 100% at GS), or private at a cost of over £100k for the 7 yrs.

blametheparents · 10/07/2009 13:07

seeker - I completely agree. I would love to live in an area with decent comprehensive schools with children acros the spectrum of academic ability.
However we live in Kent where the grammar school system means that there are not really any decent true comprehensive schools which is a shame.

seeker · 10/07/2009 13:01

The problem is that if you live in a grammar school area, there are no comprehensive schools. A school without the "top" (for want of a better word) 23% is not a comprehensive school.

Fennel · 10/07/2009 12:47

wrote a long post and deleted it as am trying not to get too involved.

but IME, you can have likeminded friends in a variety of ways, and one benefit of a comp is that you can be close friends with people who would not have passed the 11+. Some of my closest friends are still people from my comp, and some of them would not have passed an 11+, whereas I was always an academic type, but we still had/have lots in common.

snorkle · 10/07/2009 09:57

He would make new friends Lupus, and have a higher chance of finding likeminded friends too, but they probably wouldn't be local.

Original poster
LupusinaLlamasuit · 10/07/2009 09:34

Thanks all for all your advice and experiences.

Fennel, he doesn't really know yet (I've been looking first because I don't want him to get over-excited about somewhere that just isn't an option). But we have been asking him about it. He is VERY keen on maths and science and is very good at both. His main interest is going somewhere where he can do lots of exciting things in these subjects.

But I don't think he is able to envisage the other bits: what it would be like going somewhere where none of his friends go, travelling, social and personal wellbeing, being able to mix with lots of different people, working on the things he's not so good at rather than just focusing on what is easy for him or he has a talent at.

He's a high maintenance boy: needs firm boundaries and lots of food/exercise! He kicks off A LOT and has only just recently begun to find other non-aggressive ways of resolving conflict and frustration...

I really am an old hippy so it is odd to find myself saying these things about my own son, but I do think he might be happiest in a pretty traditional old-school school where competition, clear discipline and lots of sport are the order of the day.

As for DS2, well we'll have to make a completely different decision about him later as so far he's chilled, easy going and mostly into painting .

no, I don't plan to hothouse him AT ALL. He wants to try doing some practice papers, partly because he like to challenge himself. In fact he just did a bit of a maths 11+ paper this morning before school and got 15 questions right in 15 minutes. So tbh I think he will be fine on maths and VR and NVR with a bit of familiarising (and algebra practice ). But if there's an English paper, I dunno. That we would have to bribe force cajole him to practice. But that is not because of a dislike of reading/writing, just the boring crap they do in school literacy sessions...

And I think we are going to play it fairly low key: we might take a look at the GS, we might do the exam just to see (no pressure) and make our collective minds up later.

The travelling bit, lack of local friends etc still bothers me but I will think on it some more.

OP posts:
seeker · 10/07/2009 09:33

Pyrocanthus - I find it irresistible as "virtual' people watching!

Pyrocanthus · 10/07/2009 09:30

I agree with seeker's health warning on the 11+ forum. I found it and turned my back firmly on it before DD1 sat her 11+, but have had much innocent entertainment from it since (I know who you are, seeker). Am now going to wean myself off it before thinking about DD2's future - I don't want to get lured into intensive coaching and thinking her life will be over if she doesn't get into a selective school.

Having said that, there is some solid information on there which people might find useful.

margotfonteyn · 10/07/2009 09:15

You don't have to hot house your DS during the holidays.

We did about one paper a week prob, possibly less, with mine and they actually found them quite enjoyable to do (in a weird kind of way) when getting bored.
Timing them gives an 'added excitement' and its only 50 minutes, not exactly hours and hours of hard toil in a darkened room on a hot, sunny summer's day. More like something to do on a rainy and boring summer's day.

Honestly, it is the getting in that is so stressful... not the being there. Having hated and detested my GS school myself, I can vouch they have a fantastic time now and are all/were v happy (esp the boys).

seeker · 10/07/2009 08:19

I know a lot about the 11&divid; in Kent if anyone needs to ask me anything.

And please treat the eelevenplus forum that's been mentioned a couple of times with a pinch of salt - there are some "ordinary" parents on there but there are also a lot of seriously intense scary people with seriously hot-housed children!

I also know all about the struggle to remove the Trotsky hat - I'm still angsting about it now and dd has been incredibly happy and fulfilled in her girl's grammar school for 2 years now!

Fennel · 09/07/2009 09:44

lol. Does ds have a preference about secondary schools? (not that I think children of 10 really know much about it)

The people I know whose children have taken the 11+, they haven't had tutors or practice papers, and most the ones I can think of have got in (the only one I know who didn't was bright (well above average in science say) but dyslexic, there's a little criticism of the system sneaked in there). Fairly bright but certainly not all outstanding children (this is in the Trafford area, not a super-selective area). not sure which area you are aiming for but it seems there are grammars and grammars, some far more selective than others. If it's the bog standard Trafford sort of grammar, I would suspect a bright child wouldn't need tutoring, as many of the others aren't being tutored.

Original poster
LupusinaLlamasuit · 08/07/2009 22:27

And when I say I, I do of course mean DS... Just in case you think I am over-involved here...

OP posts:
Heated · 08/07/2009 22:24

Sorry if it's already been said, but practise the maths papers, there is some algebra which the primary yr 6 curriculum doesn't have to cover. Working well to time is essential - bright students who don't finish can find they don't get in.

And it isn't pass or fail the test. There are X number of places available. The score for getting in usually varies each year.

Original poster
LupusinaLlamasuit · 08/07/2009 22:13

I still don't know and its too late now to look round . Will have to wait till autumn when decision will be a mad rush. Oh well. Will just have to hope I am impressed with the comp while doing the odd 11+ paper over the summer.

DS1 is quite keen on doing some extra work over summer and loves the idea of a maths tutor but I wonder if riding his bike, playing cricket and pulling legs off daddylonglegs etc might be a better use of his time.

OP posts:
mumzy · 08/07/2009 21:19

Have a look at the practise papers or this book:
The Eleven-Plus Book: Genuine Exam Questions from Yesteryear (Gift) (Hardcover)
by Martin Stephen (Foreword)

Some of the questions are so hard they make my brain hurt. Even if your dc are v.bright they need to know the format of the exam and they need the practise regularly.

I quite like the 11+ as its probably the only exam that has'nt been dumbed down and it always amazes me what some 10 year olds can achieve.

MrsBartlet · 08/07/2009 12:47

idranktheteaatwork - don't believe the hype - you really don't need to get nearly 100%. Dd is at a grammar school in Essex and her highest raw score on any paper was 74%! I am not saying it is not incredibly competitive to get in and children need to aim as high as possible in their practice papers - but they don't need nearly 100%.

madwomanintheattic · 08/07/2009 11:51

(i'm obviously thinking of those without a catchment clause lol)

madwomanintheattic · 08/07/2009 11:50

can i ask a dim question? can you apply from another country? (we are going to be moving back to uk in august 10 and needing a school place for dd1)
we obviously can't apply for a comp place without an address, but if it is a selective grammar can she come back and take the tests etc and be offered a place without a definite UK address?
i'm toying with the private sector because of the uncertainty regarding places/ housing, so expect to have to come back for visits etc...

cuppateaplease · 08/07/2009 11:44

You will need to find out who sets the 11+ questions in your area. We had NFER so we only got their papers. However we printed masses of free ones off the internet! Too many to actually be able to complete!

cuppateaplease · 08/07/2009 11:39

If you want to try the 11+ the chuckra site is excellent for practice questions and 'how to' while the 11+ website is good for the local forum but can get a bit scary to be honest.
DS passed his 11+ last year and although i don't believe in tutoring for the 11+ it is essential to practice the question types as alot of it is different to 'normal school stuff' and most will not have fully covered the math curriculum needed for the exam. His Grammar school took all who passed regardless of score however the next nearest grammar did select on score. The school you are interested in will tell you their selection criteria

Having said that i was very impressed with the other schools that we viewed - with the children really enthusiastic about their school and the teaching. I would not have been unhappy if DS had gone to any of them

idranktheteaatwork · 08/07/2009 11:38

Hi OP,
DD is doing the eleven plus in 18 months for grammar school entry.

We are in Essex which is a blardy nightmare. 1 in 10 will get a place and you have to get practically 100% to stand a chance. MOstly because the grammar schools are excellent here and very commutable from London. (no catchment areas)

I have a tutor for 1 hr once a fortnight for the stuff that isn't taught in national curriculum simply because i am crap at teaching and it works better for us if we have a tutor to show the method and then i practice with dd.

The Bond papers are the best ones, you should also get Bond How to do verbal reasoning, Bond How to do non verbal reasoning (if your county does that) and Bond How to do 11 plus Maths.

A good thesaurus and dictionary is needed as well. YOur child needs to read books such as
Treasue Island
The Hobbit
Narnia Series
Black Beauty
The Secret Garden

This is because they will need to have a wide vocab for the tests. There are usually lots of questions involving homonyms and synonyms etc. The language used is normally quite old fashioned, last year for example there was a question using a short passage from Chaucer.
The maths needs to be at a level of around yr 8-9. So algebra etc needs to be practiced.

Most of the test is about looking at problem solving skills. You need to answer each question within 30 secs to finish the papers.

cat64 · 08/07/2009 11:12

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