I've just had a phone call from the mum of one of dd's friends saying that dd is bullying her daughter.

No, me neither. That's because we're sane.

oh I know that 100x... but I just can't imagine getting so wound up in a situation that you can't see the repercussions for your child. I would probably mention that to the mother Seeker. She should be aware she's exacerbated the situation.

The mother thinks she is being bullied, because the girl also thinks she's being bullied because she feels so awful when she's on the bus.

The mother can only see one way to deal with it - confront the bully.

the bully isn't really a bully though, that's the problem

it's a mess really

Now I think you should ring the mother. Say you understood she approached your dd, you think the situation is not as the mother sees it. And say, they don't dislike her, you have looked into it - you see no evidence of bullying, you would come down hard if you did. From what you can see her dd feels left out and isn't sure how to be more included, and isn't very sure of herself socially. What evidence of bullying does she have? How are things at school?

How on earth can the mother think that this approach would sort the situation or help her daughter at all though...
surely this is just going to make the situation much much worse. All the other girls will discuss the fact her mother was at the bus stop screaming like a banshee...
poor poor girl... I do feel sorry her.

Yeah, it's her insecurity isn't it? She's blaming other people because she isn't as popular as she'd like to be, and she prickles on the bus and your dd is so its all her fault, and she's lashing out.

It's sad really.

And really hard for you and your dd.

her mother clearly doesn't have a clear sighted view on this.

Definitely stick by your dd

ringing school sounds interesting. Might be better than confronting the mother - who clearly would rather think her dd is being bullied, rather than address the girl's self-esteem problems etc

really tricky

I think this girl is painfully shy and socially immature and is struggling to establish friendships, I also believe that she is being pressured by her mother who either hasn't noticed or denies that her daughter is struggling socially and therefore her duaghter is making up stories and putting the blame on your daughter so she doesn't have to admit to her mother she is struggling.

Where you go from her though is difficult. If you can have a rational converstaion with her then tell her what your DD has said and also what ther other parents have said. I would also inform both schools what is going on if she decides to inform either of them about the 'bullying'.

Christ Alive Seeker! Unbelievable! Everyone else is much more rational and calm than I would be... much wiser too
I would phone her and say, following our meeting in Feb, dd has tried to include this girl without much success. You yourself have witnessed her being blanked and quite frankly following this mornings debacle where the mother bullied your dd, that you would prefer that her dd didn't attempt to speak to your dd as obviously their friendship isn't very strong and it will stop her dd becoming upset or reinforce her lack of confidence....
....
Mind you, you know in Feb, when you said dd was angry after the meeting... you don't think there is any chance dd might now actually be being mean to this girl as a direct result do you?

But I think the other girl DOES think she's telling the truth. Honestly.

I think she feels awful when she's on the bus. I think it is like this for children who aren't confident or easy at the social stuff. They do blame other people for making them feel that way. It's not their fault, but they need some assistance.

Which is why I'd say on the phone, what I said earlier.

Can you get someone your DD doesn't know to get on the bus a stop before them and see what they get up to?

The mother is behaving APPALLINGLY, seeker. I'm not surprised you were v angry with her. She's doing her own daughter no favours at all, either.

Your poor daughter. I hope you have a lovely evening together to make up for it and can talk round the problem and feel better. I think you could do a lot worse than letting it lie and hoping it all calms down over the summer but I also totally sympathise with wanting to go round and confront the bananaheaded fool with her completely out of order actions.

Good advice above!

Could you suggest that the other girl took a different route into school if she doesn't want to run into your DD and her group of friends?

Very very tricky siruation .Obviously the mother is going to believe what her child teels her as being gospel and you will naturally believe your child.
Drawing on my own experience .I have a 7 year old who was so badly bullied that she would not speak to any of the 'bullies' who were the other 5 girls in her year group eventually and eventually wouldn't speak to anyone at all at school.So I am sorry to say that this girls behaviour is IME consistent with being bullied
I know the other mother's behaviour seems inappropriate but its a bit difficult for her when the alleged bullies are at a different school.

Yes, would call the mother. She feels very happy to call you about a non-event, I think it is approproate that you call her now she has shrieked at your daughter.

Will you not call her Seeker? I would

The mother behaved like a bully!

Oh, I really wouldn't try and meet the other mum again. Really you would just be feeding her insecurities and validating her behaviour. Be polite on the phone, but be firm. You can use language like 'I am sorry you see it that way'.

I really wouldn't bring the other parents you spoke to, in either. She will feel ganged up on and that will only justify her position.

You CAN let her know that if she speaks to your daughter again without you there, or without your permission, you will have no option but to mention to your daughter's school that she is being approached on the bus by another adult. Leave it at that.

The time to step it up is if this mum goes to your daughter's school and starts to stir things up. Then you can draft in witnesses, cite her unreasonable behaviour and generally let rip!

I remember this thread from back in Feb seeker, it sounds like you and your DD have been really thoughtful and done your best here.

Her telling off your DD at the bus stop is terrible! She should be ashamed of herself, an adult telling off a girl on her own at the bus stop like that.

I would call her later and state that you will not accept her doing what she did this morning, and that although your dd and her friends have tried to be civil, her DD is not reciprocating and has even blanked your DD.

I can't understand this girls viewpoint TBH, I used to have to bus across town to school with kids going to different places, and wouldn't have expected a close nit group of girls from another school to put me in the middle of their circle/conversation. It wouldn't have occurred to me, let alone bothered me enough to go crying to my mum. I also think the other mum is being abit precious. You can't tell kids of this age to be best friends, as long as they aren't nastily excluding her she should let them all be.

Is there any possibility that the other girl IS being bullied at school and that this is all her rather clumsy and inept attempt to communicate that to her mother. that you and your DD seem to be bearing the brunt of it.

I'd spell it out, nicely, Seeker.

Tell her that your understanding is that her daughter is the only one going to that school on the bus. That you have the impression she is shy and socially not very confident.

That must be difficult for her - and you know that often leads to children feeling slights and feeling left out, when really they haven't been.

Sometimes they need to blame other people for their own shortcomings. There's a big difference between picking on someone, and someone not being as involved as they'd like to be.

You are sure that they all like her and they certainly don't dislike her, but the mother can't force her child to be the centre of attention, and nobody can force other children to make her so.

However, it's not fair to blame your dd for her daughter's insecurities. And that you do understand, and you have asked your dd to try and include her in conversations, but also perhaps it would be helpful if her dd worked on finding other friends too and that might help her feel more confident and less put out.

I bet her dd is having a tough change of school, and her mother feels helpless and cross about the whole business. As mothers do.

Then wait for the AIBU: Mother of bully says it's MY DD'S fault because she's shy!

I would not bother to arrange a meeting in a neutral place to be honest. This woman couldn't be civil to a 13 year old girl, I don't think reasonable approaches are worth bothering with.

had you spoken to the other mum and told her what you had heard from your dd about the bus situation seeker or had you not got round to that yet?

I think after this most recent run-in with the mum speaking to your dd like that, I personally would no longer be prepared to meet her and her dd. At least that is if she accused your dd of bullying AFTER you explained to her what you have told us here.

If she did not know that and just thought her dd was unhappy, being bullied and you were not doing anything about it, possibly I understand her better.