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Original poster

Decision time - state grammar school or quasi-selective independent school

286 replies

Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 14:32

We truly don't know what to do about DD's secondary education. She has always been in the independent sector and is in year 6 at her prep school. The independent school into which the prep school feeds is nice enough. But we entered her into the 11+ for a state grammar school, and we learned today that she'd passed the exam with a high enough mark to ensure a place. So we don't really know what to do. DD says she doesn't much mind what she does and wants to abdicate responsibility leave the decision to us.

I've made a list of the pros and cons for moving to the state grammar school

  1. She gets to mix with a very broad range of backgrounds in terms of wealth BUT it's far less ethnically diverse. I like the idea of DD being able to mix across a broad social/racial spectrum.
  2. The state grammar has slightly worse exam results BUT the intake is slightly brighter so the difference might be bigger than it appears.
  3. The state grammar school has nothing much happening in the way of sporting stuff and DD is super-sporty.
  4. The state grammar school doesn't seem to do much in terms of other out-of-school activities
  5. The state grammar school seems to have lower standards of behaviour - lots of children quite badly dressed and swearing etc in a way that made little DD's eyes go round as saucers.
  6. The state grammar school is going to save us around £80k on independent school fees. The fees are not an issue now but they would be if I were made redundant (looks nervously at global economic environment).

What do you think?

OP posts:
CountessDracula · 22/01/2009 20:32

(sorry if I am coming across as anti independent schools here, I am not at all!)

CountessDracula · 22/01/2009 20:30

I thought on the academic side the state grammars had trounced the indies this year

seeker · 22/01/2009 20:25

I won't flame you, bloss - but I do question your assumption that state school parents don't know what a good school is. And I don't actually see what else my dd's state grammar school could offer.

Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 20:17

I am waiting, with some trepidation, for Xenia to come and flagellate me for even thinking of ruining my daughter's entire future ...

OP posts:
Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 20:15

Yes I'm totally bemused by this sporty stuff myself. If I hadn't been there when she was born I would swear she wasn't mine ...

That's a good point though, 100x. She can always go back to independent if she doesn't like the state grammar but moving the other way wouldn't be possible due to scarcity of grammar school places (rarer than hen's teeth around us).

OP posts:
ahundredtimes · 22/01/2009 20:12

Well I don't understand the sporty stuff. I'm utterly bemused by everybody being so fixated about sport all the time. All the schools we've visited - state and private - they all go on about sport. I don't care! Shut up about the bloody sport! I'm not interested in developing the whole person through sport, it's all nonsense, and they all look cold and I hate the outfits. SHUT UP WITH YOUR SLIDESHOW ABOUT SPORT.

[coughs]

Sorry.

Thing is grammar gives you the option to change to private if you wanted to. Instinct - oh and pathological hatred of outdoor team sports - says go for the grammar. The independent school sounds boring from what you've said. Teenagers should have lower standards of behaviour if they are doing it right. She'll work hard, make friends and be captain of the hockey team! She'll make them practice hard! I'd do a good sparky grammar over dullsville independent any day, if I had the choice.

bloss · 22/01/2009 20:07

Message withdrawn

CountessDracula · 22/01/2009 20:01

After driving past the Harrodian at kick out time today and wondering if there was a convention of wankers in massive fucking cars I would opt for any state school over that tbh

Honestly I was APPALLED.

DD wouldn't fit in as I have taught her to say "oh mummy LOOK a selfish person in a HORRID car" when she sees them in London

seeker · 22/01/2009 19:58

Is there only one state grammar in your area? There are 6 withing striking distance of us and theya re all INCREDIBLY different - the only thing they have in common is very hight academic standards.

Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 19:50

Yes - it's difficult to explain this sporty stuff - glad you understand. DD slightly put off by the grammar school netball team (Mummy they'd just get stomped on) and no tennis team and indifferent hockey team. And this stuff really really matters to her.

OP posts:
RiaParkinson · 22/01/2009 19:50

Prof

I know that is a consideration - her ds does seem to have changed a lot since changing schools

could just be age

Comma · 22/01/2009 19:45

Do you have a super sporty ds?

newweeknewname · 22/01/2009 19:44

Quattro - I have a super sporty DS who is going the independent route mainly because the sports is so well integrated into the daily school routine.
Our previous experience, in state primary, was that he was constantly having to go to and fro from different actitivies after school. There is no way he would be able to maintain the same level of after school sports activity at our local grammar and get his homework done every day. If the after school sports was on our doorstep so there was no travel involved it might have been a different story however.

newweeknewname · 22/01/2009 19:44

Quattro - I have a super sporty DS who is going the independent route mainly because the sports is so well integrated into the daily school routine.
Our previous experience, in state primary, was that he was constantly having to go to and fro from different actitivies after school. There is no way he would be able to maintain the same level of after school sports activity at our local grammar and get his homework done every day. If the after school sports was on our doorstep so there was no travel involved it might have been a different story however.

ProfRichardDawkins · 22/01/2009 19:44

Ria - Perhaps your friend has really run short of cash - but feels it would be rather rude to say "Of course I'd much rather send him private, but we just can'r afford it."

newweeknewname · 22/01/2009 19:44

Quattro - I have a super sporty DS who is going the independent route mainly because the sports is so well integrated into the daily school routine.
Our previous experience, in state primary, was that he was constantly having to go to and fro from different actitivies after school. There is no way he would be able to maintain the same level of after school sports activity at our local grammar and get his homework done every day. If the after school sports was on our doorstep so there was no travel involved it might have been a different story however.

Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 19:36

I think DD will thrive in most environments tbh - she's that sort of gal. Not sure I can say the same of DS. But I am worried that she will (a) lose her sports (b) adapt to lower standards of behaviour and (c) not be stretched enough. But there are of course lots of advantages and perhaps even though it looks like a monumental decision - I should just not worry about it.

OP posts:
bagsforlife · 22/01/2009 19:23

There are plenty of girls at state grammar schools who can compete in the 'global professional job market', most of which are either at or applying (and will probably get a place) to Oxbridge.

Let's face it, you are choosing between the lifestyle of the independently educated (all Jack Wills, floppy hair, lacrosse and the right connections) and the grammar school educated lot.

Depends what you value as important really.

I think there is a kind of mass hysteria emanating from the independent sector as to what would happen to their children were they thrown into a state grammar school. I think they might actually find their children struggling rather....

Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 19:19

Yes there is someone who made the transition - yes I should check, shouldn't I?

There is another aspect which seems to me to be relevant - DD's independent school is single sex whereas the grammar school is mixed. I know all the evidence points to girls doing better in singlesex schools but throughout her life, DD is going to have to deal with (and compete with) men so for me this seems to be a positive for the state school.

OP posts:
LadyMuck · 22/01/2009 17:54

QC, do you know anyone else who has gone to the grammar from your prep. Nothing like getting the lowdown from someone who has done it.

choosyfloosy · 22/01/2009 17:49

I got as far as the sport issue, and that was enough - don't send your dd to a school that is poor at what she loves most. Spend the 80K but look around to see if you can find another school that's more to your liking.

(I was a grammar school girl by the way - it was a very good academic education, and excellent in music, but very poor at sport and poor at getting every girl to get involved in things they weren't naturally already good at. It wasn't until i got to university that I found I was actually pretty good at sport, given some coaching. A shame for general health and life, IMO).

solo · 22/01/2009 17:46

Well, she's been in an independent school thus far, so perhaps continuing on and with pupils she knows and is friends with is the answer to that one.

Dottoressa · 22/01/2009 17:46

Quattro - fees aside, I think your OP answers your question. If you can afford it, you already have your answer!

Litchick · 22/01/2009 17:43

No school can 'turn' a child into anything.
Surely we as parents have that resposiblity - and then only up to a certain age when it becomes down to them and there personlity.

RiaParkinson · 22/01/2009 17:42

my friend with ds1 in independant school is sending her ds2 to the state grammar

her reasoning

'from what I have seen of (ds1 name) and his friends (name of independant school) turns them into pompous arses'

that's one opinion

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