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Original poster

Decision time - state grammar school or quasi-selective independent school

286 replies

Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 14:32

We truly don't know what to do about DD's secondary education. She has always been in the independent sector and is in year 6 at her prep school. The independent school into which the prep school feeds is nice enough. But we entered her into the 11+ for a state grammar school, and we learned today that she'd passed the exam with a high enough mark to ensure a place. So we don't really know what to do. DD says she doesn't much mind what she does and wants to abdicate responsibility leave the decision to us.

I've made a list of the pros and cons for moving to the state grammar school

  1. She gets to mix with a very broad range of backgrounds in terms of wealth BUT it's far less ethnically diverse. I like the idea of DD being able to mix across a broad social/racial spectrum.
  2. The state grammar has slightly worse exam results BUT the intake is slightly brighter so the difference might be bigger than it appears.
  3. The state grammar school has nothing much happening in the way of sporting stuff and DD is super-sporty.
  4. The state grammar school doesn't seem to do much in terms of other out-of-school activities
  5. The state grammar school seems to have lower standards of behaviour - lots of children quite badly dressed and swearing etc in a way that made little DD's eyes go round as saucers.
  6. The state grammar school is going to save us around £80k on independent school fees. The fees are not an issue now but they would be if I were made redundant (looks nervously at global economic environment).

What do you think?

OP posts:
BonsoirAnna · 22/01/2009 16:17

Can't you find a better school than that for £80k?

Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 16:16

My primary interest is in a school's academics.

So at the independent school they just hothouse them until they get their 10 A* at GCSE. Lots of rote and fairly dull learning. DD is quite bright and she found this dull at prep and it's set to get worse from now on.

So although it is undeniably true that the independent school has better results, I don't know that it fosters a genuine love of learning. All the cramming can be quite offputting.

But the behaviour aspect matters, and the sports matters (LOTS) to DD.

Perhaps I should add that because we have a deepseated need as parents to be seen to be fair - we would have to send DS to the same school in due course. DS is much less sporty. He is also much more lazy - the type of boy for whom independent schools genuinely are a boon.

OP posts:
violethill · 22/01/2009 16:15

And more importantly, talk to your child about University destinations, and indeed, everything else. The child may only be 11, but it's their life.

I have seen some real surprises with Universities attended when I'm appointing people. But sometimes there are really interesting reasons why they decided to study a particular course at a particular place. And if they're up to the job, they get appointed, regardless of where they've been. Isn't that what it's all about in the end?

TinnedHam · 22/01/2009 16:15

do you earn a lot - i dont htink you have told us before

Comma · 22/01/2009 16:14

and not naice nits

TinnedHam · 22/01/2009 16:13

Independant,w ithout a doubt. You do not want them mixing with people from families who have had nits

LadyMuck · 22/01/2009 16:11

I would definitely look carefully at uni destinations and courses for both. We have some excellent state grammar schools nearby, but their uni destinations are somewhat surprising.

bagsforlife · 22/01/2009 16:10

Quite a few swap from the independent sector to my DCs grammar school for the 6th form (including some whose parents teach in the independent sector).

Some find it quite hard going, despite their strings of As at GCSE, and AREN'T the ones who necessarily get the Oxbridge places (and about 27 offers this year) so it isn't a passport to the top universities.

Despite the school being seen as middle class (which it is mainly), many private school parents find it quite 'rough' compared to their independent school. In reality it is a really good mix socially and ethnically and, as far as I am concerned, that is the ethos of a grammar school. Parents are mainly professionals, academics, doctors and lawyers. No great peer pressure to wear the latest gear, bragging about fab holidays etc.

I really think you need to consider whether it is the academic aspect of a school you are interested in or all the extras you naturally get in a private school and for which you are paying.

violethill · 22/01/2009 16:09

Some state schools do IB/IGCSEs too - they certainly do round our way.

Comma · 22/01/2009 16:08

Your kid might learn the word...."fuck" otherwise rather than the infinitely preferable "fark".

Fauve · 22/01/2009 16:07

QC, we may well be in the same position as you shortly, although we have relatively little knowledge and no experience of the private sector. I personally am lured by the equipment and materials which the private schools have, eg machines for DT, live tarantula in the biology lab, excellent library etc.

Litchick, could you explain about the National Curriculum in private schools? I know I should know, but I don't.

Also our fear with our local grammars are that they will indeed contain more kids who have been hothoused to within an inch of their lives in order to pass the 11+. Eating disorder factories quite possibly.

BonsoirAnna · 22/01/2009 16:06

Does the independent school do IGCSEs and/or the IB?

BonsoirAnna · 22/01/2009 16:04

Spend the £80k.

violethill · 22/01/2009 15:54

Well, if 10/11 is the time your child is changing schools, that's the point at which you have to factor it in alongside everything else.

Good Universities do have pressure on them, and rightly so, to show that they are recruiting very very bright kids, not ones who may have been hothoused, coached to within an inch of their lives etc.

I know the state schools and state 6th form college in this area are getting more into Oxbridge now than the private - and I would imagine it will continue in the same vein.

So it's a point to consider.

Litchick · 22/01/2009 15:49

Double at thinking about UCAS when chosing a school for a 10/11 year old.
Xenia would so aprove.

Litchick · 22/01/2009 15:42

Bus?

Original poster
Quattrocento · 22/01/2009 15:41

School journey is about 7 miles to the independent and about 6 miles to the grammar. Rather unfortunately, they are in entirely the opposite direction - which is a factor (ish) as DS will continue to go to the independent at least until the end of year 6.

OP posts:
Litchick · 22/01/2009 15:41

Mrs W - I came back to the PC to ask the very same thing.
If one were much nearer or convenient than the other that would be a big factor for me.

violethill · 22/01/2009 15:36

Good point about looking ahead to UCAS. Private may not be the optimum position to be applying from.

MrsWobble · 22/01/2009 15:29

you've not mentioned the journey to school - does that make a difference?

FWIW we were in a similar position to you with dd2 and chose the independent school, primarily because dd1 was already there and it was where dd2 wanted to go (to be with her sister). In addition we preferred the extracurricular and school journey at the independent. We hadn't expected the grammar place (because we live too far away), and hadn't even taken dd2 round the school. I think lots of people at her state primary were surprised by our decision because the grammar school is a good one and if it had been our eldest we might have made a different decision although I'm not sure because of the other factors.

Litchick · 22/01/2009 15:15

Research shows sadly not a lot at all.

rubyredfort · 22/01/2009 15:14

And how much will they really mix anyway?

Litchick · 22/01/2009 15:13

violet - my experience is that grammars are really no less of a bubble than indies.
Our nearest grammar has hardly any diversity ( colour nor class). Are there really lots of kids from sink estates at grammar schools or are they predominantly full of the white middle classes?
As for preparation for life isn't that the job of parents not schools?

abraid · 22/01/2009 15:13

It sounds to me as though you're swaying towards the private school.

I'd go with your gut.

senua · 22/01/2009 15:11

Thinking ahead, the Grammar might look better on the UCAS form. And if DD has bothered to find out-of-school sport etc (instead of apparently being passively spponfed intramural opportunities) then that also helps.

I know you say that fees are not an issue but £80k is a huge amount of money that could be spent on University or a house deposit.

Thinking pragmatically, if you do make the wrong choice then going Grammar -> Private will be a million times easier than Private -> Grammar.

PS congrats to DD