Decision time - state grammar school or quasi-selective independent school

And you are freeing up the grammar school place for someone who actually wants it. You will have made someone on the waiting list very happy.

Sounds like you did absolutely the right thing, wish your dd all the best with her secondary school career. Sure she'll do brilliantly.

Phew, QC, you must be relieved. It is obvious that either school would have been fine - it was just a matter of having to make the decision, which was the tricky part.
You can relax now and DD can look forward to her senior school life.

Xenia

There are plenty of 'aspergers' type children in state schools getting an amazing education

one of our local state primary schools is renowned for being great for a full spectrum of special needs

a significant proportion of children in that school have moved FROM private schools who cannot meet their needs

'quirky'

They do if it's a sink comprehensive and they stand out from the rest and I am sure they have done for a decade or more and it doesn't really affect good people from private schools so it's fine. The trouble is those who were bright at 11 as you say but never came through because they got disaffected. My sister as a very querky but bright child. He would be lost in the state system. He's 7 and at his independent school there are a good few boys just like him, socially inept (not that all bright children are socially indept of course), he knows the london underground by heart etc etc and the school will stretch him academically in a way my children in their own private schools have never needed to be stretched and most of all he has already found the dare I say it rather weird tending on aspergers little group with whom he can cluster and thrive.

Quattro. I went to an exceptionally good grammar school and if I lose my job and my DC's are able to transfer there at 11, I will thank my lucky stars for the safety net. However, whilst I can continue to afford private education I would not dream of moving my children to grammar, mostly because of the pastoral care an indie provides, partly because I think private schools generally stretch pupils in the areas in which they are talented in a way that grammars do not (be it sport, drama, academia, music), and partly because I think that smaller indies are able to stamp on cliques and bullying (if the school itself is so inclined to do so) more efficiently than the larger grammars. I emphasise the 'if inclined' bit because I think this really varies widely between schools.

I know many people who run business in my local community or are involved in the community in general, and the one thing they always comment on when discussing schools is how exceptionally happy children are in my DC's school and that was another factor for me. That kind of quality can't be written into an ISC or Ofsted report but it really counts - but it is difficult to get a feel for this I guess.

champagnedahlings - I disagree that bubbles rise to the top. Completely. In another thread a while back there were some stats showing that there were (if I recall) around 40,000 extremely able children in the state sector at age 11 versus 7,000 in private education (as tested using SATS), but that when that particular year was tested for A level results, and specifically for the gold standard of 3 A's, the state schools managed I think around 10,000 top results, and the independants managed 7,400. So bright children on the whole appear to be disadvantaged by the state system and do not reach their potential (if we are to use 3 A's as a measure of potential). If those results were to be further broken down into traditional versus modern subjects, I think the differential would be even greater.

Abby - I have found your posts very interesting and slightly depressing. I think everyone on this thread will agree that - ceteris paribus - a child with 3 A's from a crap comprehensive is going to have a million times more potential than a child with 3 A's from Eton. Even though my DC's would be disadvantaged by positive discrimination, it kind of seems fair to me to see state schools get some sort of preference when they achieve top results?

lol @ everyone trying to out-posh each other!

And Latin at ours. And Commem Service in the Cathedral.

Plenty of posh 'uns at our GS too, some even POSHER than at the local independents

ds is sooo annoyingly posh Quattrocento and he is at grammar

incidently at our grammars you can only do single sciences at gcse

You won't have to do the elocution classes if if it's anything like dd's grammar - so posh it couldn't be posher and everyone appears to be called Emily, Sarah or Emma!

The bright little bubbles always rise to the top !

There are a lot of great children in grammar schools that would have gone private in the past. Why? Because they are successful and if there is a problem it will get sorted, unlike at some indies where things do get swept under the carpet.

I've done both and the grammars are better than a lot of indies. There's also probably a better chance of getting into uni from state school nowadays.

No one knows quite what is ahead for us all financially (apart from a lot of debt) so I would save your 80K and go for the grammar where there will be plenty of like minded families.

Lucky you to have such a great choice - most people don't. Count your blessings and your pennies!

ps if the grammar is a dismal failure there are bound to be places at the indie later on as the recession means people have to drop out.

Bonne chance sweetie....

Yes, there are risks grammar schools might be abolished or arbitraty decisions like I think one last week that suddenly one won't take chidlren from other border in the next county (notts?). For the small badly funded not very good private schools there are risks too of closure particularyl at the moment.

I just checked my nearest comprehensive. It gets 22% A - C aGCSE including English and maths. I thought oh this will show how silly I am and as it's London and people are well off the local chidlren in a leafy outer London suburb will be doing pretty well, 50% may be? Wow. I can't believe how bad it is. And this is a lot of children of Asian families who work so very very hard and have that lovely work ethic which so helps my own children in their private schools with those children as the Indians etc go home to lots of homework , family support for work etc. I'm sure taht's not confined to those in the private sector surely. So that means 78% of them get D or lower in GCSEs, these incredibly easy exams people go on about. That's amazing. What's wrong with them? I see them every day. They look a bit poor and sloppy but they're just children. Why do they do so badly. We don't have grammar schools.

Yes, I completely agree with you Litchick.

I am not proud of having bring in the statistics from my DCs school(I hope everyone realises the reasoning behind my publicising their results!). They are very, very lucky to a) go to that school and b) have parents who are informed enough to jump through the necessary hoops to get that education for them. Pity the people who don't have those choices.

However, the OP WAS asking about choice between state grammar and independent

We had similar dilemma this time last year, between v. selective state grammar and selective indie in London. We eventually chose the indie because journey was easier, prospect of more local friends, and given slightly less selective intake they seemed to add more value in results terms. However, I'd be lying if I didn't sometimes wonder if we made the wrong decision. We can manage the fees out of income, and we've never spent much in any case, but sometimes it's hard not to think what else you might be able to use the money for (eg exciting holidays for the kids etc). In our case we were coming out of state primary so the switch to the indie world was also unsettling and I've had to work hard to keep contact with parents of old primary school friends. However, all that said, dc is very, very happy and involved in loads of stuff - sport, music, drama etc, although the grammar also had lots of extra-curric stuff too... But the grammar is a much bigger school and I'm not sure dc would really have had the same opportunities there... But you will never know how the other decision would have turned out which is why I think you just have to make the decision based on your thoughts at the time, and then make the best of it. It's a good dilemma to have!

iamdisappointed - you make a very good point.
I am sure there are good state schools with kids going to Oxbridge if that's the sort of thing that impresses you but my local secondary gets 29% A-C GCSEs. That's the majority leaving without the bare basics of an education.
Whilst I'm willing to believe that a certain number of bright students have been creamed off by the private sector I cannot accept that the rest are a bunch of no- hopers.
These children are being massively let down by the state system and I'm always shocked that anyone is prepared to defend that.
Saying my kids are bright, my school is lovely...me , me , me just doesn't adress the problem that there is systematic failure.

Ah, but it is sort of a state vs independent dilemma too. A state school, even an excellent one, is still a state school, and is still potentially at the mercy of whatever rotten initiative the state decides is a good idea. Some state schools are less vulnerable to this than others, of course, but they are still not independent in the sense that really matters (or would matter to me, at any rate). They are also potentially vulnerable to being abolished!

I don't think this should turn into yet another state parents vs private parents squabble, not least as the OP has not asked for that. However, if I were faced with the choice that she is faced with, the state/independent element would definitely come into it.

Yes, I agree with you iamdisappointedinyou. The OP does have a genuine dilemma.

Was going to say that about my DCs being very lucky too (and lots and lots more, have said it earlier on in the thread) but the OP was about independent v state grammar.

Whilst most/practically all posters who are in the private sector, seem to understand the difference between a state grammar and a terrible sink school, SOME don't. So it's easier to keep the argument simple.

Yes, I agree with you iamdisappointedinyou. The OP does have a genuine dilemma.

Was going to say that about my DCs being very lucky too (and lots and lots more, have said it earlier on in the thread) but the OP was about independent v state grammar.

Whilst most/practically all posters who are in the private sector, seem to understand the difference between a state grammar and a terrible sink school, SOME don't. So it's easier to keep the argument simple.

Ria, bags, etc.
It's all very well for those who go to good schools to champion them but many State schols aren't like that: I would have championed DD's school if they got 27 people per year into Oxbridge. However, they have had one in the last decade (daughter of a teacher, natch). Most kids, if they go to Uni at all, go to local second-tier ones.
QC understands that this is not a state v. independent debate, it's good v. bad (or in her case good v. good, which is why it's so tricky)

'For the fairly thick child the benefits of paying are massive'.....I completely agree although I think I could have put it a bit more, ahem, tactfully.

Thank goodness the benefits don't stretch as far as convincing admissions tutors at top universities these days though.

The OPs child though isn't fairly thick though, I think we have established that

One thing I have alawys been sure of - for the fairly thick child the benefits of paying are massive. its't hose children most of all who benefit frmo the value added of small classes, good contacts, accent, class, connections, loads of clubs and hobbies but it's a pointless debate as most mothers dont' earn anthing like enough to pay in a month of Sundays and most children go to state schools adn do fine so not worth anyone getting their knickers in a twist about.